Please tell me some basic training strategy

[rsieminski]

I have a long history of weightlifting/bb, and nutrition, studied may methods, read many books on the subject, but know little about improving on the erg. Is there a science to the intervals? The single distances?

My goal is general fitness, and I'll only be competing against myself to get better. The easy answer it just to follow the Pete Plan, or some other plan, but blindly following some plan is not in my psyche. I don't have an intended distance in mind, but the improving on the typical distances, 500m, 1k, 2k, 10k, etc would be my goal. Faster at those, and I'd be leaner, stronger, better CV fitness, etc.

[ranger]

Learn to row well.

If you do, when you row, on each stroke, you will use every muscle in your body in an amazingly coordinated but challenging motion that will get you in shape and then keep you in shape--for life.

Learn to row well.

ranger

[Citroen]

I don't have an intended distance in mind, but the improving on the typical distances, 500m, 1k, 2k, 10k, etc would be my goal. Faster at those, and I'd be leaner, stronger, better CV fitness, etc.

Set your sights on an indoor competition - the C.R.A.S.H-Bs in Feb 2011 and train for that 2K. The other distances will come as personal best times during that 15month training.

As Prof. Cureton says, learn good technique first before you pick a plan.

[rsieminski]

So does anyone know the theory behind the distances, intervals, etc? No disrespect, but telling me to "Learn to row well", and telling me to "Set your sights on an indoor competition", however appreciated, goes around my question. How to train? What are the reasons for the distances chosen? Why the chosen intervals?

[KevJGK]

For some real in depth knowledge about the technicalities of training including interval training I recommend you read this document by Mike Caviston describing the Wolverine Plan.

www.eudemonia.co.uk/wp%20notes.pdf

There are other plans of course but the WP is probably the best documented especially regarding the logical reasoning.

There is an excellent thread within this forum with links to other aspects of the plan which can be found here.

http://www.c2forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=8295

The information within the links from that thread plus the document highlighted will get you well on your way to understanding erg training.

Let us know how you get on or if you have any more specific questions.

Cheers.

[hjs]

So does anyone know the theory behind the distances, intervals, etc? No disrespect, but telling me to "Learn to row well", and telling me to "Set your sights on an indoor competition", however appreciated, goes around my question. How to train? What are the reasons for the distances chosen? Why the chosen intervals?

There is no secret.

It's about energy systems, rowing very short distances is pure about power and natural speed. Thats up until 45 seconds.

Distances between 500 m and 2000 m becomes more and more dependent on your aerobic capacity. In other worths how well is your body capable to get oxigen in your muscles, your hart and lungs are important.

Above 10 minutes it's all about your endurance, power and speed become less and less important.

To train for rowing you have to row longer distances 20 min up until 60 min or more at a not to high pace. You also need to do some faster work let's say 2/3 times a week. Interval work around your current 2k/5k max pace.

Rowing on an erg is not that difficult, look around a bit on youtube and you will find good trainingvideo's.
You should use a full, long stroke, legs first, keep the arms straight, back second and arms finishing the stroke.


ps I am sorry to say but please ignore Ranger. The man is here for reason alone and that is his own ego. He will never help you in any way and never will be concreet.


To start out you could read this : http://thepeteplan.wordpress.com/
nothing to difficult, you just have to do it.

[ranger]

Rowing on an erg is not that difficult, look around a bit on youtube and you will find good trainingvideo's.
You should use a full, long stroke, legs first, keep the arms straight, back second and arms finishing the stroke.

Yes, but the real test of rowing well is the effectiveness of the stroke, not just the gross mechanics of the stroke, especially the gross mechanics of the stroke viewed externally.

It is easy to test whether you row well.

For lightweights, rowing well is 13 SPI (watts/stroke).

For heavyweights, rowing well is 16 SPI (watts/stroke).

SPI x stroke rate equals watts.

So, 13 SPI is 1:40 @ 27 spm, etc.

13 x 27 = 351 watts.

16 SPI is 1:33 @ 27 spm, etc.

16 x 27 = 432 watts

ranger

[rsieminski]

I'm a heavy weight, so what your saying is that at 20SPM the watt reading on the PM should read 320? Holy $h!t, does anyone have a video of this? That really must be pushing fast and hard. I'll have to look at my watts, but I don't think that they are anywhere near that. From what you're saying, every stroke, no matter what the distance, should be the same effort? Vary the SPM for the distance to be covered/speed? My drive for the 500m should be the same as for the 2k, just faster SPM?

Am I understanding this correctly?

[DUThomas]

It is easy to test whether you row well.

For lightweights, rowing well is 13 SPI (watts/stroke).

For heavyweights, rowing well is 16 SPI (watts/stroke).

HJS gave you good advice -- don't listen to Ranger. There are many reasons not to (he's boring, repetitive, illogical, self-indulgent, narcissistic -- oops, getting carried away here), but, for me, the main reason is that his advice is not useful.

Take the simplistic remark above, for example. It sounds definitive, but it's nonsense. When pushed, Ranger might admit that the picture is a bit more complicated, as seen in one of his earlier posts.

If you are a normal lightweight, weighing around 165 lbs., you are rowing well when you pull 13 SPI with just a natural motion.

If you are a normal heavyweight, weighing around 210 lbs., you are rowing well when you pull 16 SPI with just a natural motion.

If you are something other than these norms, you can moderate these standards.

If you are a light lightweight, say, 150 lbs., and you row well, you should pull 12 SPI with a natural motion.

If you a heavy lightweight, say, 180 lbs., and you row well, you should pull 14 SPI with a natural motion.

If you are a light heavyweight, say, 195 lbs., and you row well, you should pull 15 SPI with a natural motion.

But even with a bit more nuance, it's still nonsense. To start with, he just made up the numbers. It also suggests that, given two rowers with identical 2K times, the one with the higher SPI is a better rower. I can't tell you which one is a better rower, but I can tell you they'll have the same ranking.

[Citroen]

Am I understanding this correctly?

Rule #1: ignore everything that Ranger writes when it conflicts wth your empirical observations of your reality.

He isn't a coach, he doesn't know squat about coaching and his nonsense is painted all over this forum where it's regularly decried and disproved by every other member of the forum.

[jamesg]

RS, you asked for BASIC training strategy. Basic means learning to row first. If you do learn to row and do actually row, by that time you'll be fit and won't need any training strategy at all. It's the stroke and the sweat that get you fit.

In any case the plans don't require much more than miles by the hundred, tho they mix it a bit to avoid boredom.

Ranger's work levels (13 and 16 Watt minutes per stroke) are essential if you want to win LW or HW gold medals, but beyond most of us. For general fitness there's a 20-30% discount. However you won't reach even the discounted level if you put the cart before the horse and worry about training plans before learning to row.

The point about the amount of work in the stroke is that if you keep it high, ALL workouts are good ones, even (maybe especially) if slow. In any case we only need one type of stroke, so best make it a good one. Then you can mix pieces as you like at 18-22 (long distance) 24-27 (threshold) and 30-36 (race-cruise and sprint).

[ranger]

RS, you asked for BASIC training strategy. Basic means learning to row first. If you do learn to row and do actually row, by that time you'll be fit and won't need any training strategy at all. It's the stroke and the sweat that get you fit.

In any case the plans don't require much more than miles by the hundred, tho they mix it a bit to avoid boredom.

Ranger's work levels (13 and 16 Watt minutes per stroke) are essential if you want to win LW or HW gold medals, but beyond most of us. For general fitness there's a 20-30% discount. However you won't reach even the discounted level if you put the cart before the horse and worry about training plans before learning to row.

The point about the amount of work in the stroke is that if you keep it high, ALL workouts are good ones, even (maybe especially) if slow. In any case we only need one type of stroke, so best make it a good one. Then you can mix pieces as you like at 18-22 (long distance) 24-27 (threshold) and 30-36 (race-cruise and sprint).

Brilliantly said.

There is also this:

All the huffing and puffing that most people do, going nowhere, is that they never learned how to row.

If they learned to row well, they would go the same speed with a lot less effort.

Yes.

Rowing well demands a snappy use of your major levers.

Rowing is not a tug-of-war but a whiplash.

Hjs says tthat rowing well is easy. Just push with your legs, then swing your back, then pull with your arms.



Well, try it.

Get good compression at the catch, with your chest against your thighs.

Get up on the balls of your feet and push straight back, holding your back in place.

Don't swing your back until your legs are almost done.

When you swing your back, push down with the front of your foot and dig in with your toes until they are pointed.

Open your hips quickly and completely until the line of your lower back and legs are the same.

Keep your arms relaxed until this line is formed.

If you are doing this with proper quickness you should be "hanging on the handle" during the entire swing of your back, lifting your weight off the seat so that your butt and the seat are only in light contact.

Then snap your arms into your stomach (and let your weight back down onto the seat), keeping your toes pointed.

Quickly recover your arms before you break the straight line between your lower back and your legs that you formed at the finish, keeping your toes pointed.

Quickly close your hips and back before you break your knees/legs in order to move back up the slide.

Do this by curling back your toes against the straps and digging in with your heels.

Break your legs at the knees and proceed slowly up the slide, decelerating as you approach full compression.

Keep curling back your foot as you approach full compression with your shins vertical until your feet are approaching the vertical, too, with the balls of your feet in a position to receive your weight as you compress at the catc

At the catch, let your chest swing fully forward onto your thighs and roll up onto your toes.

Roll off your toes and back onto the balls of your feet to get ready for the next drive.

Repeat!

If you are rowing well and you are a lightweight, you should pull 13 SPI, just with a natural motion.

If you are rowing well and are a heavyweight, you should pull 16 SPI, just with a natural motion.

You won't be anywhere near this when you begin, but just keep working on quickness and precision until you get there.

It took me four years or so to reach 13 SPI with a natural motion.

I started. at 10 SPI and gained one SPI each year.

The first year I pulled 10 SPI.

The second year, 11 SPI.

The thrid year, 12 SPI.

And the fourth year, 13 SPI.

In order to work on quickness, you might want to start with the damper on 1, with a low drag and then slowly raise the drag as the months go by.

Rowing in a 1x OTW feels like rowing with the damper on 10, at high drag.

It also helps at first to row strapless.

Rowing strapless forces you to use proper timing and posture, although it makes it somewhat harder to finish completely and recover.

Once you get the hang of rowing strapless, and do it for a year or so, you can go back to using the straps.

When I was learning to row, I rowed strapless for the first year.

Then I switched back to using the straps.

ranger

[ranger]

I'm a heavy weight, so what your saying is that at 20SPM the watt reading on the PM should read 320? Holy $h!t, does anyone have a video of this? That really must be pushing fast and hard. I'll have to look at my watts, but I don't think that they are anywhere near that. From what you're saying, every stroke, no matter what the distance, should be the same effort? Vary the SPM for the distance to be covered/speed? My drive for the 500m should be the same as for the 2k, just faster SPM?

Am I understanding this correctly?

Learn to row well at low rates (16-26 spm) first.

Then you can lighten up later, when you raise the rate, and when you do, it will make the rowing feel easier.

Distance rowing (27-32 spm) is done with a lighter stroke, about 2 SPI lighter.

Racing (36 spm) is also done with a lighter stroke, about 1 SPI lighter.

For sprints (500m trials), you might want to pull your guts out, using a stroke that is even heavier than rowing well.



In rowing, there are many ways to die.

The 2K is just the most popular form of suicide.



The length of the 2K (6-7 minutes) makes the death more dramatic and therefore more fun to watch.

Torture is more entertaining than a quick execution.



ranger

[hjs]

I'm a heavy weight, so what your saying is that at 20SPM the watt reading on the PM should read 320? Holy $h!t, does anyone have a video of this? That really must be pushing fast and hard. I'll have to look at my watts, but I don't think that they are anywhere near that. From what you're saying, every stroke, no matter what the distance, should be the same effort? Vary the SPM for the distance to be covered/speed? My drive for the 500m should be the same as for the 2k, just faster SPM?

Am I understanding this correctly?

hahah that's what one person in the hole world thinks yes. I think you can see what is wrong about that.

[ranger]

I'm a heavy weight, so what your saying is that at 20SPM the watt reading on the PM should read 320? Holy $h!t, does anyone have a video of this? That really must be pushing fast and hard. I'll have to look at my watts, but I don't think that they are anywhere near that. From what you're saying, every stroke, no matter what the distance, should be the same effort? Vary the SPM for the distance to be covered/speed? My drive for the 500m should be the same as for the 2k, just faster SPM?

Am I understanding this correctly?

hahah that's what one person in the hole world thinks yes. I think you can see what is wrong about that.

No, not just one.

For example, jamesg just agreed with me.

Or can't you read?

I know that it makes you nervous to discover, after the fact, that you never rowed well, even at your best, but tthat is no reason to pass your personal anxieties on to others by giving them bad advice about technique.

ranger