Concept2 Forum

Hey I´m wondering, if you gain weight, even if its pure fat around your stomach, will this make you faster on the erg?
Would appreciate an explanation too, not just yes or no

You're only going to go faster if you gain muscle or train the muscles you have to perform better. So the answer is technique, technique and technique.

Fat is just a burden and hauling it up and down the rail won't have any effect on improving your times.

Extra dead weight will only make you faster in a very limited case. In general your speed is defined by the output of energy and more dead weight will only make you need to supply more energy for the motion back and forward. Just imagine you would have to move back and forward up the slides with something like 50kg extra weight. Not a nice prospect, eh?

How could dead weight make someone faster?

On the erg a lot of work which is applied to the handle (by the arms) in the last part of the drive is generated by the body in the first part of the drive (by the legs). During the first part of the drive the legs need to accelerate the body and by doing this energy is "stored" in the body as kinetic energy. This energy is used in the final part of the drive. As the force on the handle becomes larger than the force on the foot stretcher the body is slowed down and the kinetic energy of the body is used to move the handle and the flywheel.

This principle can be noticed by an exercise. If one tries to row using exclusively the legs and keeping the arms stretched and the body firmly tilted forward than at the end of the drive one notices the body experiencing a shock backwards making it very difficult to start the recovery. This shock is because when rowing in this way the body still has a lot of kinetic energy at the end of the drive. When making a full stroke this energy is decreased in the last part of the drive.

Now, if a rower has more dead weigh he has more capacity to store energy. It allows him to use more force on the legs in the first part of the stroke without a need for the arms to balance this force. Those arms only come later. So if a rower is limited in using his legs because, for instance, the arms are not strong enough, than more dead weigh would allow him to use the legs with more force. The principle is broadly equivalent to the superseat (superseat.nl) which also allows a higher force on the legs.

This advantage comes with disadvantage. A rower does not gain more power with more deadweight but moving a heavier mass back and forward costs more energy. The deadweight only allows the rower to apply a higher force. This advantage is probably outweighed by the disadvantage for longer distances or rowers who don't have problems apply high forces on the stretcher.

Speaking on a completely general basis, and all other factors being equal, "dead" weight should improve your erg scores slightly, as your legs will necessarily become stronger to support the additional weight during day-to-day activity. That additional leg muscle can go towards the handle, since it isn't going to the task of keeping you upright.

That said, if you are a complete lard-ass and are gaining weight because you aren't engaging in day-to-day activity, then no, you won't gain much speed simply by weighing more.

SirWired

Thetanium wrote:Hey I´m wondering, if you gain weight, even if its pure fat around your stomach, will this make you faster on the erg?
Would appreciate an explanation too, not just yes or no

I am currently conducting a double blind study on this exact issue. The subject (me) is enthusiastically pursuing the theory that large weight gains increase erg scores as scientifically proved in the "overload principle". see below, emphasis mine..


One of the phenomena of the human body is its ability to adjust to the demands of physical stress placed upon it (getting fatter). A person's level of fitness is imaged in the specific adaptations made to their shape, weight, body flexibility and movement, related to the level of physical activity habitually encountered in their work or leisure pursuits. The body can also respond by adapting to meet the demands of planned diverse physical activity(being fatter makes you work harder). It may register an improvement in muscle strength, endurance, speed, flexibility and co-ordination, dependent on the type of activity being undertaken and the intensity and progressions entailed. Conversely, inactivity will produce adverse changes in these areas and a decline in the body's efficiency.

The concept of progressively increasing the load and its training effect is known as the 'overload principle'. It can be defined as 'the application of any demand or resistance that is greater than those levels normally encountered in daily life'. The degree of intensity with which the system is overloaded will affect the rate at which physiological adaptations take place. The closer the overload is to maximum(in my case, i'm not sure there is a "maximum" lol), the greater the physiological improvement, provided that the overload is applied in gradual progressions and can be tolerated by the body for it takes time for the human body to adapt to additional exercise without experiencing fatigue or excessive muscle soreness. Below a certain stress level a person will show no improvement and merely maintain his current level of physical fitness(skinny people are slow and not to be trusted..)



tongue planted firmly in cheek of course!

I don't buy that gaining weight confers any advantage on the erg. I don't have any scientific basis for saying that though. Two thirds of the time when rowing is spent on the recovery, going back up the slide. More weight has to be harder and involve more work. I don't really get that added weight, in the form of fat, makes the drive any easier either, but even if it does, that advantage is more than offset by the cost of the pulling it back up the slide.

My guess is that rowing punishes fat less than most other endurance sports; so that there may be minimal penalty from gaining 5-10 extra lbs.

Chad: as much as you seem to row, how can you be gaining weight???

michaelb wrote: <snip>
Chad: as much as you seem to row, how can you be gaining weight???

I was asking myself that exact same question when I responded to the email call to finish off the strawberry cake in the break room this morning...

I dont have an answer yet...

michaelb wrote:I don't really get that added weight, in the form of fat, makes the drive any easier either, but even if it does, that advantage is more than offset by the cost of the pulling it back up the slide.

I agree that added weight does generally not increase speed (the low fat percentage of the fastest rowers on the erg is a good, scientific, indirect prove of this). However, this does not mean that this is true in all cases. Improvements in (maximum) speed are not always made by improving efficiency. Sometimes rowers need to improve their maximum (sustainable) force in order to be able to supply more power. A very short sprint is an example of a case which is more limited by maximum force/speed than best economy or efficiency of energy resources. (This would mean that the correlation between fat percentage and speed would be less strong for shorter distances)

Also, evening out the effort by doing more in the recovery and less during the drive might be physiologically advantageous because it could reduce local strain. If the arms become very tired while the rest of your body is not tired than the speed could be improved by using more of the legs even when the total expenditure would be less efficient. It is very often the case that the fastest way to row or erg is not the most (mechanical) efficient way simply because the most efficient way does not allow the maximum output. E.g. rowing at 24spm is more efficient than rowing at 40 spm. Still, the latter is often faster because it allows a higher generation of power. This is analogous to a car driving faster but less efficient at maximum rpm.

Thanks for the many longer explanations on why or why not a weight gain would help your erg scores.
In the end I do also row in a boat on the water, and there I know each kg less counts. The reason I brought the question up is that now we are off season only some few regattas. And in this period you wanna build up power and performance, so I thought that if I could bring up my high scores even higher by adding some pounds I would, but after reading this it looks like it wouldnt be for much help adding those pounds, and in the end they have to go off any ways.

BTW how can you add ur BP to your user under each of your comments automatically?

Thetanium wrote:BTW how can you add ur BP to your user under each of your comments automatically?

I'm not sure if this is what you're asking (I'm not sure what a "BP" is in this context). But if you go to your profile (link is at the top of each page), you can add a "Signature" (which is described there as a "block of text") which will be added to the bottom of each of your posts.

HTH,

Alissa

Alissa wrote:

Thetanium wrote:BTW how can you add ur BP to your user under each of your comments automatically?

I'm not sure if this is what you're asking (I'm not sure what a "BP" is in this context). But if you go to your profile (link is at the top of each page), you can add a "Signature" (which is described there as a "block of text") which will be added to the bottom of each of your posts.

HTH,

Alissa

Okey, thanks.
Sry ment to write PB, Personal Best

we are off season only some few regattas. And in this period you wanna build up power and performance, so I thought that if I could bring up my high scores even higher by adding some pounds I would

As a competitive powerlifter, in my sport, often we will go through a strength-building phase where we eat and lift in order to gain strength, and consequently end up putting on significant weight. Obviously, we prefer to add muscle, but inevitably we also gain fat.

For example, I lift in the 220# weight class. In training, my weight can get up to 230#.

Once we've reached whatever point we're shooting for, we'll cut back the food and concentrate on maintaining our strength while losing weight.

We do it this way because it's too difficult to gain strength while keeping our caloric intake at an equilibrium. To lift, gain strength and recover, we need excess calories.

It's easier for me to gain strength and weight, then lose excess fat than to gain strength while maintaining a steady weight.

It might be worth considering whether this approach might work for you. If it sounds interesting, you might consider talking to coaches and competitive athletes in your primary sport, rowing, to see if it might work for you.