So, here's my contribution to the Ranger debate

[chgoss]

Here it is, what I believe to be a clarification of his beliefs, based on some recent exchanges in the "what training have you done today" thread. I've refrained from commenting on wether or not I feel the belief makes sense or not, alll I tried to do was capture the belief itself.

1) the best way to train is to focus on individual strokes. This is done by looking at the force curve, and the SPI (information that is derived from rate/pace for that one particular stroke).

2) Only "good" strokes should be taken in training, a "good" stroke is one pulled with a good force curve, at a certain SPI.

3) It is not important (actually it can be detrimental) to record how many "good" strokes are consecutively done, over a certain time period or distance.

4) a person's weight is "at" a certain value, if at some point in the day, that person can weigh him/her self, and it's that value.

[ranger]

Here it is, what I believe to be a clarification of his beliefs, based on some recent exchanges in the "what training have you done today" thread. I've refrained from commenting on wether or not I feel the belief makes sense or not, alll I tried to do was capture the belief itself.

1) the best way to train is to focus on individual strokes. This is done by looking at the force curve, and the SPI (information that is derived from rate/pace for that one particular stroke).

2) Only "good" strokes should be taken in training, a "good" stroke is one pulled with a good force curve, at a certain SPI.

3) It is not important (actually it can be detrimental) to record how many "good" strokes are consecutively done, over a certain time period or distance.

4) a person's weight is "at" a certain value, if at some point in the day, that person can weigh him/her self, and it's that value.

Response?

(1) Initially, yes. You need to take one good stroke first, if you are going to take 1000, or 2000, of them, eventually.

(2) Initially, yes. The first thing to do in rowing, I think, is to learn to row well. You learn to row well by doing it--rowing well. Rowing is repetitive. It is all about technical and skeletal-motor habits.

(3) No, by all means, if you are rowing well, record anything you would like. But first row well, and only record what you do rowing well. Try to forget about when you rowed badly, and avoid it, whenever possible.

(4) For the purposes of rowing, it doesn't matter what your weight is "at," whatever that means. At a weigh in, you stand on a scale for a moment. The only thing that matters is what your weight is then. When you step off the scale, you can eat and drink on ten pounds, if you would like. You have two hours before you race.

ranger

[chgoss]

Here it is, what I believe to be a clarification of his beliefs, based on some recent exchanges in the "what training have you done today" thread. I've refrained from commenting on wether or not I feel the belief makes sense or not, alll I tried to do was capture the belief itself.

1) the best way to train is to focus on individual strokes. This is done by looking at the force curve, and the SPI (information that is derived from rate/pace for that one particular stroke).

2) Only "good" strokes should be taken in training, a "good" stroke is one pulled with a good force curve, at a certain SPI.

3) It is not important (actually it can be detrimental) to record how many "good" strokes are consecutively done, over a certain time period or distance.

4) a person's weight is "at" a certain value, if at some point in the day, that person can weigh him/her self, and it's that value.

Ok, so, one last question: You break all of the activities that occur prior to racing into two groups:

1) Hard Distance Rowing: which is basically, as I understand it, getting the technique right, and doing lots of distance work to "ingrain" it.

2) Sharpening: lots of intervals

yes?

[ranger]

Here it is, what I believe to be a clarification of his beliefs, based on some recent exchanges in the "what training have you done today" thread. I've refrained from commenting on wether or not I feel the belief makes sense or not, alll I tried to do was capture the belief itself.

1) the best way to train is to focus on individual strokes. This is done by looking at the force curve, and the SPI (information that is derived from rate/pace for that one particular stroke).

2) Only "good" strokes should be taken in training, a "good" stroke is one pulled with a good force curve, at a certain SPI.

3) It is not important (actually it can be detrimental) to record how many "good" strokes are consecutively done, over a certain time period or distance.

4) a person's weight is "at" a certain value, if at some point in the day, that person can weigh him/her self, and it's that value.

Ok, so, one last question: You break all of the activities that occur prior to racing into two groups:

1) Hard Distance Rowing: which is basically, as I understand it, getting the technique right, and doing lots of distance work to "ingrain" it.

2) Sharpening: lots of intervals

yes?

No.

You forgot a step.

Here's the plan.

(1) Row effectively (at low rates).

(2) Row efficiently (at 30 spm).

(3) Row fast (at high rates).

Pretty simple program, but (I suppose) easier said than done.

Yes.

Easy to say.

Hard to do.

That's the problem.

Almost no one does it, and certainly no one does it who is over 40 years old.

The Wolverine Plan gives everyone a massive break on (1), although ithe best rowers who follow the WP approach this challenge.

Paul Smith's 10 MPS and the Interactive Plan skip (1) entirely.

The Interactive Plan and the Wolverine Plan skip step (2) entirely.

All the plans do step (3), which is by far the most popular.

By and large, everyone sharpens the same way, and with the same benefit, about a dozen seconds over 2K.

Most people who row just try to go as fast as they can, step (3), right off the bat, and then repeatedly, without taking the time to learn to be effective and efficient with it.

As a result, they go slow, and sooner, rather than later, they get stale, injured, sick, or so discouraged that their times just keep getting worse despite all of their best efforts that they quit and take up some sport that they find more productive and satisfying.

ranger

[ranger]

I now have a nice little cut slide distance stroke, 1:45 @ 30 spm (10 SPI).

_Very_ efficient.

Over the next couple of week, I think I do it for 20K and win my bet with hjs.

As you can see from my signature, a HM @ 1:45 is one of my major goals.

Back in 2002-2003, I did 9K @ 1:45.

So, now, I am quite a bit better than that.

3 seconds per 500m.

My work on technique over the past five years has paid off!

The 60s lwt HM WR is 1:53.67 pace--1:19:56.

(The 60s hwt HM WR is 1:51.5 pace--1:18:28).

A 1:45 HM predicts a 1:48 FM.

No lightweight of any age has ever logged a FM at 1:48.

A FM at 1:48 is also one of my major goals.

ranger

[SHANE SHAW]

rich you foget to mention the fact that all the medication you are on must help with the rowing and also the fact that you pull yourself everyday

Why don't you take up knitting

[mrfit]

Your "nice little cut slide distance stroke" realization allows you to conclude

"So, now, I am quite a bit better than that(9k at 1:45)" ???

Wouldn't the term now suggest that you have actually rowed the piece faster and or further? or does "better", in your view, describe something else about rowing besides elapsed time over a distance?

[KevJGK]

Over the next couple of week, I think I do it for 20K and win my bet with hjs.

In all seriousness, under what circumstances would you concede that hjs has won the bet?

[Rocket Roy]

When can I expect my $20 winning's?

[chgoss]

Here it is, what I believe to be a clarification of his beliefs, based on some recent exchanges in the "what training have you done today" thread. I've refrained from commenting on wether or not I feel the belief makes sense or not, alll I tried to do was capture the belief itself.

1) the best way to train is to focus on individual strokes. This is done by looking at the force curve, and the SPI (information that is derived from rate/pace for that one particular stroke).

2) Only "good" strokes should be taken in training, a "good" stroke is one pulled with a good force curve, at a certain SPI.

3) It is not important (actually it can be detrimental) to record how many "good" strokes are consecutively done, over a certain time period or distance.

4) a person's weight is "at" a certain value, if at some point in the day, that person can weigh him/her self, and it's that value.

Ok, so, one last question: You break all of the activities that occur prior to racing into two groups:

1) Hard Distance Rowing: which is basically, as I understand it, getting the technique right, and doing lots of distance work to "ingrain" it.

2) Sharpening: lots of intervals

yes?

No.

You forgot a step.

Here's the plan.

(1) Row effectively (at low rates).

(2) Row efficiently (at 30 spm).

(3) Row fast (at high rates).

Fair enough, so it looks like this:

1) Training (long duration)
- a. Row effectively (at low rates).
- b. Row efficiently (at 30 spm).
- c. Row fast (at high rates).

2) Sharpening (4-5 weeks)

3) Racing

So, here's my question: what event triggers the transition from Training to Sharpening? Is it just proximity to a race? Or something else?

[ranger]

Fair enough, so it looks like this:

1) Training (long duration)
- a. Row effectively (at low rates).
- b. Row efficiently (at 30 spm).
- c. Row fast (at high rates).

2) Sharpening (4-5 weeks)

3) Racing

So, here's my question: what event triggers the transition from Training to Sharpening? Is it just proximity to a race? Or something else?

No, it looks exactly as I wrote it.

Sharpening is rowing fast.

So, this:

(1) Row effectively (at low rates).
(2) Row efficiently (at 30 spm).
(3) Row fast (at high rates).

When you master (1), move on to (2).

When you master (2), move on to (3).

Row fast/sharpen for a couple of months.

Then race.

ranger

[ranger]

Over the next couple of week, I think I do it for 20K and win my bet with hjs.

In all seriousness, under what circumstances would you concede that hjs has won the bet?

If the times I log in the various races this year fall well short of my targets, even though I am fully trained.

I haven't done any races yet.

ranger

[ranger]

When can I expect my $20 winning's?

Conditions for our bet were not realized.

Planes didn't fly.

I couldn't weigh in at Boston because I couldn't get there.

Therefore, we don't know my weight at the WIRC 2009 weigh-in.

Bet nullified.

ranger

[chgoss]

Fair enough, so it looks like this:

1) Training (long duration)
- a. Row effectively (at low rates).
- b. Row efficiently (at 30 spm).
- c. Row fast (at high rates).

2) Sharpening (4-5 weeks)

3) Racing

So, here's my question: what event triggers the transition from Training to Sharpening? Is it just proximity to a race? Or something else?

No, it looks exactly as I wrote it.

Sharpening is rowing fast.

So, this:

(1) Row effectively (at low rates).
(2) Row efficiently (at 30 spm).
(3) Row fast (at high rates).

When you master (1), move on to (2).

When you master (2), move on to (3).

Row fast/sharpen for a couple of months.

Then race.

ranger

Got it
(1) Row effectively (at low rates).
(2) Row efficiently (at 30 spm).
(3) Row fast/sharpen (2 month's, at high rates).
(4) Race

so, 2 questions:
- what stage are you in now?
- what is the definition of "mastering" for each stage?

[KevJGK]

Over the next couple of week, I think I do it for 20K and win my bet with hjs.

In all seriousness, under what circumstances would you concede that hjs has won the bet?

If the times I log in the various races this year fall well short of my targets, even though I am fully trained.

I haven't done any races yet.

ranger

Would you care to define "various races", "this year" (do you mean 2009), "well short", "targets", "fully trained".

Each of those could be open to wide interpretation so a nice tight concise definition from you would be nice to see.