Concept2 Forum

Once you have done your homework and row well at full slide (i.e., 13 SPI for lightweights, 16 SPI for heavyweights), cutting the slide when you race is a triple boon.

Using a cut slide naturally/automatically (1) raises the rate, (2) sharpens the catch, and (3) reduces the effort.

Using a cut slide is especially effective if you soften up the finish a bit, too, shortening and easing up with the arms as they come into the body.

Rowing with a cut slide, I get to 44 spm _very_ easily, with _very_ little loss in stroking power, only about 1 SPI.

Rowing with a cut slide, I pull 12 SPI rather than 13.

1:27 @ 44 spm.

This is how the great Danish lightweights race.

12 SPI, 8 MPS, 40+ spm

Does anyone else race with a cut slide in this way?

If not, you should give it a try.

ranger

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Disregard.

To reduce the work per stroke, you can reduce length, handle force or both. Which to do depends on your failure mode during a race. If it's mechanical overload, as mine would be as I can't pull full force for the 200+ times it takes in a 2k, I'd reduce handle force by dropping the drag.

You can see the drag number, and so control the adjustment easily. Length is not so easy to control, because of the slack catch on the erg.

Reducing length for oarsmen is little short of a crime, done only in the last ten strokes. Even then, stroke might well shorten up, but how do those behind him know what's happening?

The point about the Danes is that we don't know the gearing they use afloat. However it must be very light, if they pull 40 for 6 minutes, full length, as they do. Hence the importance of drag on the erg, which tho not the same as gearing, is the nearest we have.

jamesg wrote:To reduce the work per stroke, you can reduce length, handle force or both. Which to do depends on your failure mode during a race. If it's mechanical overload, as mine would be as I can't pull full force for the 200+ times it takes in a 2k, I'd reduce handle force by dropping the drag.

I agree with all of this except the last 3 words. You need to drop the resistance to reduce the handle force, but as force irs related to drag x handle speed cubed. So lowering drag will only reduce force if the handle speed is kept constant. To achieve this would require a lighter stroke regardless of the drag.

jamesg wrote:Reducing length for oarsmen is little short of a crime, done only in the last ten strokes. Even then, stroke might well shorten up, but how do those behind him know what's happening?

Quite apart from this being an erging forum, exercises at reduced slide can be implemented at a command so why not this? As for it being a crime, reducing length from optimum is not a good idea, but neither would extending it from optimum. The optimum stroke length is slightly shorter at very high ratings to reduce the time of the relatively slow leg drive and recovery (see sprint WR holder Rob Smith for an eample of optimal erging at 70SPM). But if someone was using an exaggerated length of stroke (common with those uncoached trying to increase pace at restricted ratings), reducing this to an appropriate length would be an improvement.

Iain [/code]

Just to be pedantic--Force on the handle is proportional to drag times handle speed squared not cube. Power is proportional to drag times handles speed cubed.

Thanks for the responses, despite the lack of agreement.

To each his own, I guess.

The proof is in the pudding.

ranger

jamesg wrote:The point about the Danes is that we don't know the gearing they use afloat. However it must be very light, if they pull 40 for 6 minutes, full length, as they do.

40 spm?

In a 1x?

Really?

The erg is a single.

No one else is in the "boat" but you.

ranger

As for "puddings," on the erg, at least, here's one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9Mx8BlT5F4

The outstanding feature of Stephansen's stroke, on erg 9, compared to the strokes of the other rowers in the race, is his cut slide.

At the catch, Stephansen's shins are wildly short of vertical.

Result: lwt 6:02

ranger

bloomp wrote:Perhaps if you were to explain what "Cut Slide" rowing is, people would understand, I personally have no idea and have rowed for coming on five years.

With a cut slide, you take the catch with your shins well short of vertical.

The seat slides only half (or so) as far toward front-stops as it would, if you took a full stroke with shins vertical at the catch.

ranger

iain wrote:But if someone was using an exaggerated length of stroke (common with those uncoached trying to increase pace at restricted ratings), reducing this to an appropriate length would be an improvement.

I am assuming that the standard for "appropriate length" at the catch is vertical shins.

I am not sure that going beyond vertical shins at the catch increases pace at restricted ratings. It doesn't for me.

Personally, I am no longer very interested in what happens at restricted ratings.

I am interested in what happens at race rates (32-42 spm?), which are usually pretty high, especially for lightweights.

Give or take a bit, most of the best lightweights pull a 2K at about 35 spm, starting and finishing at 40 spm.

ranger

Disregard.

bloomp wrote:I can't disagree with the fact that lightweights race best at higher ratings, but your video doesn't support your claims... He's rowing just as long and his shins are quite vertical at the catch. I don't think that abandoning any leg strength is beneficial, especially for a lightweight

Blind, too?

Oh well.

No, his shins are _way_ short of vertical.

By cutting the slide, you only abandon _some_ of your leg strength.

But who needs it all?

As a 58-year-old lightweight, I can pull 500m, 1:30 @ 30 spm--16 SPI.

And most elite lightweights can pull 20 SPI on a max pull.

No need for that.

If you are going as far as 2K, 1:30 @ 40 spm (12 SPI), as Stephansen does, is just fine.

Hey, to find out that I'm right, you just have to try it.

For me this morning:

Warm up.

Then sprints, 1:29 @ 42 spm, cutting the slide.

Great stuff.

"Danish Lightweight Racing Stroke" (DLRC).

I am getting _very_ good at it.

I'll do a lot of it, every day now, for the next 18 months.

Sharpening.

ranger

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Henrik Stephansen at the catch, from the video, at the 44-second mark:



Compare the angle of the shins with the edge of the podium (black line behind him), which is vertical. What he does technique-wise is start his drive fully compressed, with his back relatively straight upright and his hands coming up much less farther forward towards the chain box than they might be. Effectively, he's trading a bit of potential stroke length at the catch for faster stroke cycles/higher ratings.

On the water, not coming fully forward on the slide is going to keep a rower's center of mass farther towards the bow than it should be. Regardless of anything else it does, the effect must be to drive the bow down into the water and slow the boat.

EDIT: forgot to add, note also the damper setting. He's clearly got the lever set at 5, which on the new out-of-the-box machines used for Crash-Bs probably means a drag factor of 125-130.