How much can I improve my 2K time in 3 months?

[f2d]

First off, my current stats:
29, male, 6'1", 172 lbs
Did my best 2K row today:


My current situation/training:
I erg 2 days/week, weight train 3 days/week, other 2 days are rest days. I'm currently cutting (about a 3000 kcal/week deficit) and will be doing so for the next 2 months. I know that will make getting gains tougher. In the past few months I've mostly done steady state training, 5K, 30 minute, 10K pieces. Average of 25 - 30K / week total including warmups. I plan on doing some HIIT work to improve on sprinting.

My last best 2K was about a year ago at 7:56.x, but I was super lazy this winter and when I started erging again this spring it was obvious that I took a pretty big step back.

So, my questions are..
How much can I realistically expect to improve in 3 months time?
I ended the piece today with a heart rate at 190, what % of my max would that be? I was pretty much dying at the end of it, and felt sick and nauseous to the point where I couldn't get off the floor for at least 10 minutes (tbh I have no idea how much time passed), so I think it was pretty close to the best I can do.
I'm setting a long term goal of doing 2K in under 7 minutes. Would this be achievable in say, a year?

[G-dub]

You are young and have good height so you can probably improve quite a bit with good technique and training. You probably aren't as fit as you can be at this point. Seems to me that you would want to do more than 2 days a week to get fit enough to be your best. I would imagine 4 days would be more like it at minimum. At your age you can recover well and erging doesn't hurt your joints. The first year can remove 30-40 seconds off your time for sure. If you want to super charge your training the Pete Plan will do it. Maybe the beginner version given you want to do less days per week. I am now very much a believer in the value of an organized training plan. BTW - it sounds like 190 BPM Is close to your max.

[Edward4492]

You'll get lots of responses. I don't profess to be an expert and will simply not get involved in any arguements about what is the best way to go about this. With that said, I'll tell you what works for me and the several people I have (successfully) coached. You asked for advice, so this is what I would advise.

First and foremost, scrap the weight training. No running, no crossfit, no cycling. If you want to get fast on the erg, then erg. Period. 20-30k a week will not get it done. My "light" weeks are 50 - 60k (I'm your size, 6', 165lbs). I'm 58 yrs old, so I have 30 years on you. And my recent (past several months) best 2k is 7:05. My fastest 2k (last September, 6:59.1) came after a six week stretch of heavy meters ( 80 to 100k). The biggest improvements came from doing long 20r rows at a decent pace of 2:00, about 200w. This is not a brutal training schedule, an hour a day six days a week is all it takes to get into the 80 to 90k range. I count all of my meters including warm ups, I usually don't bother warming up for the long easy stuff.

For starters I would do two 15k days.If you can't do 15k straight through, do (2) x 7500m or (3) x 5000m. No rate restriction, just a sustainable pace. Start out at a pace you feel comfortable with and tweak it down each week. I would do two days with a 1500m warm-up(I like to do various drills when I warm up), then 5k at a 20r, pick a wattage you can maintain to the end. Then a 1000m cool down. Do another day with a 1500m warm up and 5000m free rate, look to improve your time each week. Add one day of warm up, cool down and some sort of speed work (8 x 500, 4 x 1000, 12 x 250).

You could look at the "Pete Plan", it's pretty much what I outlined above. I can't remember if he emphasizes the 20r work, I would make sure you get this done. This will put you in the 55-60k a week range.....very manageable.After 6-8 weeks you could start to tilt the balance away from the 15k's and do more speed stuff. The most important thing is to ditch the other superfulous work. If your looking to blast a fast 500m, then you may need weight training. If you want to alleviate boredom, then cross training is fine.

If you want to go fast on the erg........need I say it? Ya gotta pull the handle.

(Please keep in mind, you did say 3 months. Weight training may be part of a periodized 12 month program. It simply steals resources for a short term target)

[f2d]

Well, I'm definitely going to keep doing the weight training since I want to maintain/increase my size as well, but I can increase the erging as I get fitter. I could probably work my way up to 3 days of 20K and 1 day of 10K once I'm done cutting (when I'm not cutting I don't really get that sore from rowing, but when I am it hamstrings my recovery and I feel like crap afterwards)

The longest piece I've done so far is 10K. Next step is to do an hour long row, which will probably be around 13.3K. It does sound like I need to up the workload significantly. I looked up the pete plan, it's basically 6 workouts that aren't crazy hard or anything. It's definitely doable to do an AM and PM session and knock out 2 in a day.

Btw, by 20r do you mean 20spm? Usually when I see #r it means rest for that many minutes. I currently do long pieces at about 24spm which drifts upwards towards the end.

[Bob S.]

Btw, by 20r do you mean 20spm? Usually when I see #r it means rest for that many minutes. I currently do long pieces at about 24spm which drifts upwards towards the end.

Yes. Here the r stands for rate, I.e. stroke rate.

Bob S.

[Edward4492]

You're 6-1 and 172lbs....what exactly are you "cutting"? You sound pretty lean already!

As Bob said...20r means 20spm, Sorry for the confusion.

[f2d]

You're 6-1 and 172lbs....what exactly are you "cutting"? You sound pretty lean already!

As Bob said...20r means 20spm, Sorry for the confusion.

Got it, I figured that's what you meant, just wanted to double check. Will definitely give that a try.

Well I was up to about 185 earlier this year, I got lazy (and fat) over the winter. I'm finishing up the cut now.

[jackarabit]

F2d, G-Dub and I both training on Pete (Marston) Plan and reporting daily progress on a thread right here on the Training subforum. Not hard to find. Offers the minimum weekly volume (60k) that Edward recommends in six days per week. No 20 rate work prescribed but I did 4x10'/3r/rate 20 today as a recovery (low aerobic HR) day workout. I didn't do it at 200 watts of course but I did do it.

There's some leeway for customization and a schedule that dovetails with your work week but the emphasis is on DOING the daily assignment with a view to: 1) achieving familiarity with a single plan rather than grazing on a smorgasbord of training suggestions gathered hither and yon, 2) establishing benchmarks of personal progress at erging (steady state pace, pace targets for specific workouts, workloads, and distances, 3) developing speed and aerobic endurance directed at 2K TT or race prep. The youngest participant/correspondent is your age so we're not all greybeards.

You can do Pete Plan or any number of other 2k prep plans available online on your own volition but you have an invitation to join us if you wish. You have three months. Start tomorrow. Jack

[Carl Watts]

7:10-7:15 maybe in 3 months its going to take longer to break a sub 7 try 6 months for that but you need to gain some weight, drop the rating for the long training rows and you can get there.

Sounds like 190 is about your maximum heartrate and it took off pretty quickly from the start. More training will drop your heartrate for a given pace.

I'm not really racing these days but the best so far this season was a 7:35.0 a couple of weeks ago at the end of a week of hard training at 23spm average and average HR of 167, well off my max which is still in the 180's.

With some good training you will get some fast gains, anything sub 7 is a good time.

[f2d]

F2d, G-Dub and I both training on Pete (Marston) Plan and reporting daily progress on a thread right here on the Training subforum. Not hard to find. Offers the minimum weekly volume (60k) that Edward recommends in six days per week. No 20 rate work prescribed but I did 4x10'/3r/rate 20 today as a recovery (low aerobic HR) day workout. I didn't do it at 200 watts of course but I did do it.

There's some leeway for customization and a schedule that dovetails with your work week but the emphasis is on DOING the daily assignment with a view to: 1) achieving familiarity with a single plan rather than grazing on a smorgasbord of training suggestions gathered hither and yon, 2) establishing benchmarks of personal progress at erging (steady state pace, pace targets for specific workouts, workloads, and distances, 3) developing speed and aerobic endurance directed at 2K TT or race prep. The youngest participant/correspondent is your age so we're not all greybeards.

You can do Pete Plan or any number of other 2k prep plans available online on your own volition but you have an invitation to join us if you wish. You have three months. Start tomorrow. Jack

I think I will join you on that. Since I already did a couple pieces today, I'll start next week, cut a rest day from my schedule, and do the 6 workouts in 3 days each week.

[jamesg]

Plenty but only by doing endurance work and nothing else. Your current system - 3 d/w strength - is calculated to destroy any endurance you may have, so will make you go slower.

A 7 minute 2k is 300 W, more than 10 times our BMR. During that, we produce at least 10 times as much waste as at rest. So the problem is getting rid of it. Not doing so produces the effects you saw last time.

LSS offers both technique and endurance. To row a medium 2k (7 minutes) this is enough. 5x10k a week will sort you out.

[hjs]

Without knowing you that 2k seems very modest. Should be possible to improve a lot.

You train currently 5x, of which 3x are weights. On those three days you should also erg. Don,t know how much you do right now. But i would aim for 5k on the weightdays and 8/10 k on the erg only days.

For weights focus on the big lifts, forget about the small stuff. Get stronger on squats, deadlift and rows. Do pushwork for balance.
And don,t forget to eat well. Enough protein and fats (apart from omega6 and transfats), and don,t go overboard with carbs.

At the moment its simple, you both are not strong enough and far from fit enough. Lots of room to improve big time. A nice goal is 10k below 40 min. With first 5k below 20. Which would be doable pretty soon.

[jackarabit]

The 3 days a week of weights and double Pete with a "core" and a recovery session in a mere 24 seems overly optimistic to me but 5-10K per week will get a relatively fit young man to sub-seven minute 2k performance? Should that read 5-10k per day? Jack

[G-dub]

Before jumping into Pete Plan (which hits you pretty hard), you might consider doing what Henry (HJS) and James says for a month or two to get more of an aerobic base built and to get your body used to erging more volume. You don't have to go hard - long and manageable is better. Then integrate the speed and endurance intervals. Just getting more fit will drop your time a bunch. You might also make sure your technique is good enough. Post a video if you have the courage!

[hjs]

The 3 days a week of weights and double Pete with a "core" and a recovery session in a mere 24 seems overly optimistic to me but 5-10K per week will get a relatively fit young man to sub-seven minute 2k performance? Should that read 5-10k per day? Jack

Highway to hell, way to much from this starting point.