Concept2 Forum

Apologies in advance - I know this is touched in other threads but, as a new rower, I don't get the damper settings:

The Concept 2 website likens damper setting to the difference between rowing a sleek fast boat and a heavy slow boat. And yet, the damper setting seems to be a matter of choice with no standard setting when trying to get a faster time. It seems logical to use a sleek fast boat if you want to reach your goal distance in the quickest time. If damper (or resistance factor) is a measure of deceleration then I would think less deceleration means you will reach your goal quicker, so use a low damper factor.

Thanks in advance!

NickKira wrote:Apologies in advance - I know this is touched in other threads but, as a new rower, I don't get the damper settings:

The Concept 2 website likens damper setting to the difference between rowing a sleek fast boat and a heavy slow boat. And yet, the damper setting seems to be a matter of choice with no standard setting when trying to get a faster time. It seems logical to use a sleek fast boat if you want to reach your goal distance in the quickest time. If damper (or resistance factor) is a measure of deceleration then I would think less deceleration means you will reach your goal quicker, so use a low damper factor.

Thanks in advance!

You are mixing up speed with needed effort. A sleek boat goes fast with little effort. A heavy one does not. The speed of the fan on the erg will reflect that. On low drag fanspeed is very high. On high drag it is low.

The rate of deceleration will influence your stroke rate to keep the fan spinning and your ability to apply power to the handle (which is what is being measured really)
Speed therefore is a combination of stroke rate, stroke power and the drag factor. The DF has surprisingly little effect really within the "normal" range of say 100-150. It is more what you feel comfortable with and where your "sweet spot" is and it really is different strokes for different folks.

You are mixing up speed with needed effort. A sleek boat goes fast with little effort. A heavy one does not. The speed of the fan on the erg will reflect that. On low drag fanspeed is very high. On high drag it is low.

HJS - thanks for the reply. Are you saying that the fan speed at damper 10 is high, but decelerates quicker?

NickKira wrote:

You are mixing up speed with needed effort. A sleek boat goes fast with little effort. A heavy one does not. The speed of the fan on the erg will reflect that. On low drag fanspeed is very high. On high drag it is low.

HJS - thanks for the reply. Are you saying that the fan speed at damper 10 is high, but decelerates quicker?

No it both is less higher and it decelerates faster. Check it your self.

back to basics.

The lever is controlling the amount of air that can get into the fan housing. Lets say X rpm is 2000 rpm just for arguments sake.

Less air, damper 1 means the fan is "easier" to spin faster to X rpm and decelerates slower and needs less power to obtain X rpm.

More air, damper 10 means your shifting more air so its "harder" to spin to X rpm and it decelerates faster and needs more power to obtain X rpm.

The Concept 2 monitor is SELF CALIBRATING using the DRAG FACTOR as part of the pace calculation which is the number on the monitor and not the manual damper setting. Essentially the monitor is calculating WATTS or energy your putting into the fan/flywheel and derives your theoretical pace from this. How it does this is by not only looking at the frequency of the pulses coming from the pickup, its looking at the rate of decay or slowing down of the pulses over time between the strokes.

So your probably thinking a low drag factor is easier, its not. The monitor pings you with a low drag factor so you have to spin the flywheel at a FASTER sustained peak rpm, which requires incredible leg speed on the drive as well as the power.

High drag generally needs higher rating or spm as allowing the flywheel to slows significantly between strokes makes it very tough. Your body is also not a machine with a nice torque curve, it hates expelling large amounts of power in a short time and would rather take two strokes that average the same power as one stroke.

Where it gets complicated is ever body is different, fitness level, height etc so there is no one perfect setting that suits all, hence its adjustable. Not only that you actually need to change it between sprints where you need a high drag and longer rows where you need less drag for the best times.

Obviously a blocked fan cage affects the airflow as well, the air can get in but then it cannot get out so it also acts as a secondary damper, changing the Drag Factor.

VERY loosely applied the drag is a little like gears on a bicycle, except its continuously variable and not a fixed number of different speeds. The early model Concept 2 rowers actually used two different sized sprockets like "Gears" before the variable system was employed from the Model C onwards. I say loosely as there is no direct drive from the cranks through the chain to a wheel on a fixed surface with no slip as there is on a bicycle so the comparison is an analogy to help the understanding.

Unless you have explosive power, i.e both power and speed the drag setting is a compromise. Power and less speed choose a higher drag factor, speed and less power choose a lower drag factor. The aim is to work on your weakness over time and try to achieve the best you can of both.

Apologies for the ramblings, its midnight but I hope you find some of it useful.

Thanks Carl and HJS. I'll give it a go tomorrow. So far I've only used 10, will see how it feels at 3-5. Thanks for the info.

NickKira wrote:Thanks Carl and HJS. I'll give it a go tomorrow. So far I've only used 10, will see how it feels at 3-5. Thanks for the info.

Was a bit short, lack of time.

The speed of the fan can be compared with the speed of the water under the boat. In a fast boat the water goes fast, this is like a low drag setting.
If you set the pm on the stroke profile setting, and look at the profile. Use a constant rate and pace for instance, rate 20 and pace 2.00. First row at high drag and look at the profile. After that set it on low and look again. In both cases the amount of energy is alike. But high drag will show a much wider and less high profile. The low drag will show a much steeper curve but smaller. The stroketime of the low drag will be shorter.
Also rowing at low drag, at the same pace will make more noise. The fan spins a lot faster.

Thanks guys for the replies.
Having had another go on the rower today your replies are all making sense. My first effort a couple of days back was 3mins 54secs on damper 10, today I tried damper 6 - it was more or less the same time (3mins 51secs) but felt much harder. Proving to me that low damper does not mean faster speeds.

NickKira wrote:Thanks guys for the replies.
Having had another go on the rower today your replies are all making sense. My first effort a couple of days back was 3mins 54secs on damper 10, today I tried damper 6 - it was more or less the same time (3mins 51secs) but felt much harder. Proving to me that low damper does not mean faster speeds.

What are the actual drag factor numbers on the monitor ? this is what is important to note down.

What are the actual drag factor numbers on the monitor ? this is what is important to note down.

Damper 6 was drag factor 125 (I don't know how that compares to other machines). Damper 10 was up around 190. I found 125 a big aerobic effort (for only 1k). I'll be trying a bit higher next time.

NickKira wrote:

What are the actual drag factor numbers on the monitor ? this is what is important to note down.

Damper 6 was drag factor 125 (I don't know how that compares to other machines). Damper 10 was up around 190. I found 125 a big aerobic effort (for only 1k). I'll be trying a bit higher next time.

You have a little bit of dust build up but nothing too major. Mine is in the 140's in the 6 position. I try and row in the low 130's

This thread personally helped me better get this and I thank you guys for that. But one thing I am not clear on that I see you guys mentioning. Helped me better understand the term "drag" and what does it mean when you say okay at x-damper setting I get a drag of 125. Is that drag of 125 meters? Meaning it will go on it's own at 125-meters? Not really clear on that.

No one of my acquaintance (all stout fellas and illustrious ergers), has, to my knowledge, in the thousands of explanatory words devoted to the subject of df, even once made reference to a unit of measure. One might conjecture that a subject which attracts so much hot air on the theory and practise of atmospheric braking might make use of cubic feet/second? Perhaps the stalwarts at Concept 2 can help? Absent that, we might want to entertain submissions for a Pin a Tail on that Non-Contingent Number contest, winner to receive a Seabreeze in color of her choice. From this day forward, I will be erging with a df of 110 Catspaws.

Jack

speedy wrote:This thread personally helped me better get this and I thank you guys for that. But one thing I am not clear on that I see you guys mentioning. Helped me better understand the term "drag" and what does it mean when you say okay at x-damper setting I get a drag of 125. Is that drag of 125 meters? Meaning it will go on it's own at 125-meters? Not really clear on that.

As jack says above - it is a number with no units attached to it as far as I am aware but perhaps there is - "catspaws" it is Jack.