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Help Me Break 2:15/500m
Posted: May 14th, 2015, 7:18 pm
by RowerMatt516
I've been rowing now for about four months. I'm 45 years old, 6'5" and 285 pounds. My workouts are either "long, slow" rows of 20-30 minutes where I go about 275/500m and about 19-21 SPM, or 500m sprint workouts (Usually do short warm up 3-5 minutes, then 3-4 500 M sprints followed by a 5 minute cool down. I have been concentrating on form and use the 1:2 formula for the pull and recovery. My work output is usually a nice, even curve.
But no matter what, I can't seem to break 2:15. I saw the monitor briefly go down to 2:12 a few days ago, but thats about it. And at that rate, I'm exploding with my legs as much as I can, and I'm pretty winded at the end.
So, what gives? Do I need to do more Sprints, or just lose some more weight?
Re: Help Me Break 2:15/500m
Posted: May 14th, 2015, 7:50 pm
by Cyclingman1
So, at the catch your arms are straight, you're leaned forward, and your legs are compressed. Then you push off strongly with your legs, keeping your arms straight, and halfway down slide you rock your back backwards and then pull the handle to your sternum. Then you come back up the slide and find yourself in the same position at the catch and repeat. And you are big, really big and you don't get below 2:12. That's not possible. You cannot be putting much energy into the rowing stroke.
Re: Help Me Break 2:15/500m
Posted: May 14th, 2015, 8:09 pm
by RowerMatt516
That sounds about right. Maybe I am not leaning forward enough at the start? But I do lean back and pull to my sternum. Is that the secret- moving the handle a greater distance?
Re: Help Me Break 2:15/500m
Posted: May 14th, 2015, 8:39 pm
by G-dub
As scary as it sounds, I would video yourself and put it up on here. I did it and I learned a lot about what to improve on. And it's the really the best way for these guys can help you.
Re: Help Me Break 2:15/500m
Posted: May 14th, 2015, 9:51 pm
by Bob S.
RowerMatt516 wrote:
I have been concentrating on form and use the 1:2 formula for the pull and recovery. My work output is usually a nice, even curve.
The drive takes about 0.7 seconds and, at 20 spm, the full stroke takes 3 seconds exactly. So, at that stroke rate, the drive to recovery ratio would be about 1:3 - a quick, full drive and a slow, relaxed recovery. Another point is not to think of the drive as a pull. The handle is indeed pulled by the arms - at the end of the drive, but the emphasis should be on the initial push by the legs. Until the leg push is well under way, the arms and back are mostly linkage.
Bob S.
Re: Help Me Break 2:15/500m
Posted: May 14th, 2015, 11:34 pm
by Hillclimber
RowerMatt516 wrote:I've been rowing now for about four months. I'm 45 years old, 6'5" and 285 pounds. My workouts are either "long, slow" rows of 20-30 minutes where I go about 275/500m and about 19-21 SPM, or 500m sprint workouts (Usually do short warm up 3-5 minutes, then 3-4 500 M sprints followed by a 5 minute cool down. I have been concentrating on form and use the 1:2 formula for the pull and recovery. My work output is usually a nice, even curve.
But no matter what, I can't seem to break 2:15. I saw the monitor briefly go down to 2:12 a few days ago, but thats about it. And at that rate, I'm exploding with my legs as much as I can, and I'm pretty winded at the end.
So, what gives? Do I need to do more Sprints, or just lose some more weight?
Re: Help Me Break 2:15/500m
Posted: May 14th, 2015, 11:37 pm
by jamesg
Set the drag to zero and start all over again, taking it easy. Don't worry about times, paces or power. Stop when you've had enough, but do it every day.
Re: Help Me Break 2:15/500m
Posted: May 16th, 2015, 2:26 pm
by RowerMatt516
Done! I just increased the drag up to 9 and I was hitting 1:56-1:58 for 3 minutes with 1 minute rest in between. Did 3 500s.
At that pace I was just pushing the edge of conversational zone, and I still feel like I'm working hard.
I appreciate the advice-I tried to lean forward a little more at the beginning and compress my legs as much as possible. Even the dude who thought I need to talk to a physician but than edited his post (?)
Re: Help Me Break 2:15/500m
Posted: May 16th, 2015, 2:50 pm
by Hillclimber
RowerMatt516 wrote:Done! I just increased the drag up to 9 and I was hitting 1:56-1:58 for 3 minutes with 1 minute rest in between. Did 3 500s.
At that pace I was just pushing the edge of conversational zone, and I still feel like I'm working hard.
I appreciate the advice-I tried to lean forward a little more at the beginning and compress my legs as much as possible. Even the dude who thought I need to talk to a physician but than edited his post (?)
"the dude" reconsidered his advice. it's hard to know where to begin with the limited data, and lack of background you've shared.
Re: Help Me Break 2:15/500m
Posted: May 16th, 2015, 6:45 pm
by Bob S.
RowerMatt516 wrote:Done! I just increased the drag up to 9 and I was hitting 1:56-1:58 for 3 minutes with 1 minute rest in between. Did 3 500s.
Why such a high drag (sic)? Most ergers use a
damper setting in the range of 3-5, which gives a
drag factor in the order of 110-140 on a clean machine at normal atmospheric pressure. Some use even lower settings with excellent results. Admittedly, higher values are used by many for 500m time trials, but nowhere near as high as a damper setting of 9, and you are doing training intervals, not time trials.
Are you using a gym machine? On an old machine, with a clogged cage, it might be necessary to use a high damper setting to get a drag factor in the normal 110-140 range. If you are using gym machines, be sure to check out the drag factor each time you start up. (Also, if you want to rank a piece online, be sure to check the time and date settings.)
Bob S.
Re: Help Me Break 2:15/500m
Posted: May 16th, 2015, 6:56 pm
by mg6682
RowerMatt516 wrote:Done! I just increased the drag up to 9 and I was hitting 1:56-1:58 for 3 minutes with 1 minute rest in between. Did 3 500s.
At that pace I was just pushing the edge of conversational zone, and I still feel like I'm working hard.
I appreciate the advice-I tried to lean forward a little more at the beginning and compress my legs as much as possible. Even the dude who thought I need to talk to a physician but than edited his post (?)
The more I've gotten into rowing, the more I realize that I like to create the drag on the machine vs. the machine creating the drag (with a high setting). When I started rowing I'd focus on 500m and 1000m rows at a very high drag (8-10). Now, the highest I'll set drag is around 135-140, even for the shorter rows. My current standard is about 130 (low 5 on my machine) and it seems the more experience I get the lower that drag setting gets.
Re: Help Me Break 2:15/500m
Posted: May 16th, 2015, 9:10 pm
by Hillclimber
mg6682 wrote:The more I've gotten into rowing, the more I realize that I like to create the drag on the machine vs. the machine creating the drag (with a high setting). When I started rowing I'd focus on 500m and 1000m rows at a very high drag (8-10). Now, the highest I'll set drag is around 135-140, even for the shorter rows. My current standard is about 130 (low 5 on my machine) and it seems the more experience I get the lower that drag setting gets.
+ my experience also.
Re: Help Me Break 2:15/500m
Posted: May 16th, 2015, 10:16 pm
by Edward4492
Not as fast as Damien and Morgan (or as big!).... but I row most pieces at a 95 DF (around a 2-3 damper) and have gone up to 115 for 500m and 1000m pieces. My leg drive is more like a pop; quick short and explosive.
Re: Help Me Break 2:15/500m
Posted: May 16th, 2015, 11:45 pm
by Bob S.
The OP is certainly a big guy, but rumor has it that Rob Waddell, the top 2k record holder used a relatively low DF for his best 2k. There are very few as big as him. 6'9", if my memory serves me right.
Bob S.
Re: Help Me Break 2:15/500m
Posted: May 17th, 2015, 7:58 pm
by maestroak
I think the questions regarding the machine were spot on, something seems amiss to me. Could be your form as well but it's hard to believe someone of your size struggled to get the monitor to register 2:12 even briefly, even with terrible form. I'd try to find another erg and see what that's like. As others pointed out, jacking the damper up shouldn't have been the answer either.