Why are TR pieces so much harder for me?

[tbartman]

I'm using the UK website training program for my winter race for the second year, and I've noticed something peculiar and wonder if anyone else has the same problem, or some advice.

I put in my training level, HRs, goal 2k time, etc., and it gives me the training program and suggested HRs and paces for the different types of workouts (UT1, AT, etc.)

I notice that the suggested workouts for the various levels seem about right. For example, at my 2k pace of 6:45, it says my UT1 pace should be 2:00-1:54, and a typical workout might be 3 x 13 minutes. I can do 13 minutes at 1:54 (the faster end of the range) x 3 o.k. It's a good solid workout - not too easy, and hard enough to make me work.

Same thing for my AT (pace of 1:54-1:49) and AN (pace of 1:40-1:37) ... I can do the fast end of the suggested pace for the times suggested (like 2x 10' for AT, or 8x 1' for AN) and feel like I got a really good session in. In fact, last night I did 8x 1' at 1:35 o.k.

BUT, the TR pieces are killer, and often I can't complete them. My TR suggested pace range is 1:49-1:40. The workouts like 5x 2' I can almost do (usually I do 4x 2', then 1' twice). 3x 3' same thing, I can't finish that last 3 minutes. 2x 4' or 2x 6' at 1:40? Forget it!

Is there some reason I can complete the number and length of intervals at the fastest end of the suggested pace range for UT1, AT, and AN but not for TR? Is this a physiological fault of mine, or a fault of the training program assumptions, or something else?

BTW - the reason for my 'failure' is both screaming legs, breathing like a steam engine, and a HR pegged at the red line - not one more than the other.

[Cyclist2]

I'm using the same plan, but will only do my first TR session this week. You didn't mention your rest times - maybe if you rest more between pieces to let your HR get back down to 90-100% recovery you'd be able to finish. When I do my TR session (8x2'), I'll post whether I find the same thing or not.

[tbartman]

For recovery, I usually do active recovery (rowing at about a 2:30 pace) for 5' or so for UT1 or AT pieces, 2x the work interval for TR, and 3x the work interval for AN.

[PaulG]

I consider it more important to complete the workout than adhere to a to strict rest interval. Based on your times, I'm not sure I am qualified to give you advice, but I don't think you gain much by rushing into the next interval, especially if you can't complete it. I use the UK program also it calls for starting again when your HR is roughly double your resting HR. For me that is 116/min. I often have to wait until it is around 100, but I am able to finish.

Mike Caviston in his commentaries on the WP talks about the importance of finishing over adhering to a rest interval.

[TabbRows]

TB,

Having just bombed on my first TR piece, I can empathize with you. Part of my problem was health related--nursing a head cold and working out stiffness in back of knee. But, I couldn't complete the workout mainly because I was pushing 1:44 pace for the first 3 x 2' when I should have been around 1:50-1:51. I was also pulling @34 spm and I'm used to 28-29 on faster pace rows. Plus, with my HR monitor on the blink, I've been judging the rest intervals so I just rested for 2' which was probably too short. I tanked on the 4th set.

So I'm planning on repeating this week's workout next week and for the TR piece, I'm going to think more on controlling the pacing like I would in a 2K race. The first 3 sets I'll keep at 1:52 @29, then the next 3 I'll try for 1:50@ 30, and then see if I can push 1:149-1:50 for the last 2 @ 31/32. For rest intervals I'll extend them until my breathing comes back down and my pulse rate gets closer to where it was after my warmup and just before the interval session start. So slowing your pace to your upper bands and then gradually bringing it up over each set, while extending your rest from active rest to full rest and waiting for your HR to recover, might just get you through the piece.

[RowtheRockies]

TB, either their is a flaw in the science in the program as far as the times for the bands, or like you said there is a flaw or weakness there in your overall fitness. They do give a training band that is a range it looks like of about 9 seconds. I agree with TR, slow your pace in the first couple of repeats while still being inside the band. I wouldn't necessarily add to the prescribed rest as then it seems like you would be outside of the TR band and starting into the AN band. Slow the pace of the first couple and increase. You will eventually find the pace that allows you to complete the entire session.

Rich

[Cyclist2]

As promised, here are the results of my first TR workout today, 8x2'. I was able to finish OK, each one felt about the same. My TR pace band is 1:58 - 1:48, HR band is 161 -174, (My max HR is 181, resting is 50).

1:48.4, 164 Max
1:48.4, 161
1:50.0, 161
1:49.2, 162
1:48.5, 165
1:50.5, 165
1:50.5, 165
1:49.7, 166

My rest interval was 2 minutes, and my heartrate got back down to about 118 (80% recovery according to the plan). I was paddling VERY lightly, not really active rest. On #5 I had to rest about 2:15 to get my HR back under 120. I was experimenting with SPM (about 29 up to 36) and breathing rhythm since this was my first real interval workout this season.

I find that staying relaxed and getting a good rhythm going really helps. When I get sloppy with my stroke and breathing, the HR really jumps. Hope you got it figured out, all good info in the posts.

[PaulG]

TabbRows and Cyclist2: Whoaa, what input did you use for the UK Interactive program? I have been following the plan for Athlete Level 3, 4 session/week, 52 YO, and I get nothing near 8x2 TR for a workout. No wonder you have problems completing it; I would. At most I have a 4x4' and 3x6' at TR pace of 1:59-1:49. My PB in the 2K is 7:19 so I am not a complete anchor (only a sea anchor). Either you guys are working way too hard or I am not working enough. I am afraid it will be the latter.

[Cyclist2]

I'm using Athlete level 4, 4 sessions per week. 58 years old, 50 bpm resting heart rate, 181 max HR. I input my current 2k time as 7:20 (My most recent test 2k was 7:29, so I'm on track. My optimistic goal is down around 7:00 at the race). I'm in week 8 of the 16 week plan.

These workouts feel about right for me. I'm at the faster paces in the bands, with HRs mid to upper in the bands. They feel hard, as they should, but aren't killing me. I'm also doing the Holiday Challenge, so on the "off" days I usually do a long UT2 or UT1 workout to log meters (today, however, I rode my bike).

My aerobic capacity is pretty good - I raced my bicycle this last summer, so I'm used to the surges in HR. I'm weak in my upper body and arms, so am also lifting weights to work on that.

Your mileage may vary...

[PaulG]

BUT, the TR pieces are killer, and often I can't complete them.

I agree the TRs are killers. I did my first 3x4 min TR workout tonight at paces of:
1:50.2
1:50.6
1:54.2 with 5 minutes walking rest between pieces. I was determined to finish so I rested enough to ensure finishing. My HR between pieces was still about 180% of resting.

I died in the last two minutes of the last piece. The suggested range was 1:58-1:48 so at least I was able to stay within the range but it was at a cost of incipient barfability. The bucket was near but remained empty.

Like you I am usually much lower in the suggested pace range for my workouts.

[M. Podolsky]

I haven't made a study of your training plan, but it seems to me you're entering a "target" 2km pace that is too optimistic. I move my own target by very small increments - but so far I'm not following a defined training plan.

Your sig says your current 2km PB is 6:52.2, but you've set a target of 6:45. Try the TR pieces with a target of 6:49.

Apologies in advance if I have misread your target/training goals.