Is "proper technique" the same for everyone?

[zen cohen]

I rarely see myself row but recently erged at a gym next to a mirror. I had thought that I did not come far enough forward at the catch but it turns out I overcompress my legs such that they're going past perpendicular to the floor. Sometimes I go so far forward the seat hits the backs of my heels and breaks the skin. Also my torso tends not to lean forward at the catch and my posture is poor (I'm a sloucher).

Seeing this, I started correcting my technique to comport with what's apparently universally prescribed, but I felt my stroke was shortened, it felt like it took more effort to maintain my splits. I suspect that I need to work at proper technique (eg, is overcompressing inherently ineffecient?) and things will improve but it raises the question whether unorthodox technique just works better for some people.

Comments?

[PaulS]

While certainly not having to fit strictly into a mold of "technique" at all costs, the differences will likely be so slight as to be undetectable by many.

The task we have to accomplish on the Erg is not all that different from what would be done with a barbell to the clean position, and there is a well defined technique for doing that, mostly related to minimizing the potential for injury, the same reason one would want to practice proper technique while rowing.

The Erg of course is not quite like rowing, since the chain and cog doesn't mimic the oar to water interface, and the handle path is linear instead of curved, so all manner of strange "optimizations" can be tried that won't be applicable to regular Rowing.

That said, there are guys your age and size that are roughly 1 minute faster over 2k, so your definition of "works better" needs to be firmed up.

There is a reason that the World Record holders of Indoor Rowing nearly all come from the population of OTW Rowers, and if you only count the Fastest (not age class related), then they all do; and they all use the same technique.

You have done a good job identifying some things to work on, as well as illustrating that what we think we are doing is often not what we are doing at all. Make any changes in a systematic way and not too quickly, it's amazing what we can get used to doing, and even the "right" thing will feel terribly wrong if it is not the established habit. Plus we still want to be working to minimize out risk of injury.

[rowmyboat]

There is a reason that the World Record holders of Indoor Rowing nearly all come from the population of OTW Rowers, and if you only count the Fastest (not age class related), then they all do; and they all use the same technique.

So what is holding back the non OTW rowers from becoming WR holders Paul - soley technique? Is it something one would never 'obtain' if only used an erg?

[Nosmo]

There is a reason that the World Record holders of Indoor Rowing nearly all come from the population of OTW Rowers, and if you only count the Fastest (not age class related), then they all do; and they all use the same technique.

So what is holding back the non OTW rowers from becoming WR holders Paul - soley technique? Is it something one would never 'obtain' if only used an erg?

If you had the physical ability to be an Olympic or World Champion, would you want to train for an Olympic medal or the CRASH-Bs? If one has the mental fortitude and physical ability to win in international on the water competitions it is not surprise that they can beat anyone else on an erg, where the competition is much much less. On the water racing and training is a lot more complicated then erging.

I do somewhat disagree with Paul. There are some very successful on the water rowers who have a lot of strange quirks. For boats with more then one person the most important thing is for people to row together, but for singles there is a wide variety of things that people do, that one would not want to coach yet somehow people make it work. I've noticed in this summers Olympics.

However over compressing is rare and very risky to your knees. Not getting much forward body lean is not that big a deal. It does depend somewhat on how big your gut is and may be related to your Slouching. Slouching is potentially risky for your back, but fixing it is not necessarily trivial. It is possible to fix slouching both on the erg and in general but few people know how to do it.

To make a long story short--learn proper technique you won't be sorry.

[tdekoekkoek]

However over compressing is rare and very risky to your knees. Not getting much forward body lean is not that big a deal. It does depend somewhat on how big your gut is and may be related to your Slouching. Slouching is potentially risky for your back, but fixing it is not necessarily trivial. It is possible to fix slouching both on the erg and in general but few people know how to do it.

To make a long story short--learn proper technique you won't be sorry.

Agree with Nosmo about the varying techinques of some of the top rowers. Still there are certain things that are common to all, but slight variations in the execution.

Also as far as over-compressing goes, one thing to check is your foot stretcher height. It may be too low, allowing you to come up too easily and fast into the catch. This also will cause your power application not to be horizontal enough. Some people like to lower their foot stretchers a bit, and this can work for some, but too low and you will have issues.

[PaulS]

There is a reason that the World Record holders of Indoor Rowing nearly all come from the population of OTW Rowers, and if you only count the Fastest (not age class related), then they all do; and they all use the same technique.

So what is holding back the non OTW rowers from becoming WR holders Paul - soley technique? Is it something one would never 'obtain' if only used an erg?

Nosmo answered this pretty well. A person could certainly obtain everything they needed to become a WR holder on the Erg while never having stepped into a boat, but they would need a similar amount of coaching assistance a those OTW rowers as well as the genetics to back it up.

As I've said previously, I believe that there are technique differences between what is optimal for the Erg and OTW, but it all begins with OTW technique principles. The "differences" being mentioned with regard to 1x rowers are more likely to be style (what we see) rather than technique (what is being done). For example, Michelle Guerette (Oly Silver) has been discussed in rowing circles as having a "short" stroke, yet there are several points in the video of the race where it can be seen quite clearly that she is on the drive longer than the competitors with supposed "long" strokes, and they are at virtually the same stroke rate. One can't merely look at physical positions as determination of stroke length, as there are rigging variables to account for, DF on the Erg and Span, Oar length, inboard, workthrough, catch/release angles, blade size/shape, shaft flex, etc... in the boat.

[Alison]

As an on-water rower who has spent many countless hours on the erg, I think I can wade in a bit here, Zen Cohen.

You said that you were over-reaching at the catch, which in a boat amounts to 'lunging' - a definite no no that will slow down the boat speed.

You can correct this by doing a couple of things - sitting up straight (which will help your breathing during the stroke); then at the finish, you're in a layback position, swing forward from your hips, arms out straight, before starting the move up the slide - this is important - your body should be in position to take the next stoke before you start to roll up to the catch. If you're sitting with your back straight and angled forward, you won't be able to over-reach and strike your heels with the seat. Use the mirror in the gym to check your position - it will take a while to get used to setting your angle and not over-reaching, but it really will help you get faster.

And yes, check your foot stretchers - if the angle is too little, you need to change it to a more acute one that doesn't allow you to get so close.

Good luck!

A

[rowmyboat]

Thanks for your replies Nosmo and Paul - sorry to have butted in Zen Cohen but one comment always leads to another doesn't it? Good luck with improving your technique.

[zen cohen]

Thanks for your replies Nosmo and Paul - sorry to have butted in Zen Cohen but one comment always leads to another doesn't it? Good luck with improving your technique.

No problem, and thanks everyone for your informative responses.

[Nosmo]

For example, Michelle Guerette (Oly Silver) has been discussed in rowing circles as having a "short" stroke, yet there are several points in the video of the race where it can be seen quite clearly that she is on the drive longer than the competitors with supposed "long" strokes, and they are at virtually the same stroke rate.

That was one example I was thinking of. Watching the Olympics I noticed right away that she does not pull all the way in to her body. She does seem to cut off her stroke. I'll go back and look at that. Is there some link to a discussion of this?

If I remember correctly one of her competitors (perhaps the Bulgarian woman) in the final also seemed to be very slow out of bow.

Neither of these would you coach someone to do.

The differences in technique could really be seen in the final for the lesser places. Watch the singles D, E & F finals. I'm sure some of them would have been faster with technical improvements.

There is a guy in our club who has really strange style. Hardly any body swing. Legs spread out as he comes up the slide and together at the catch and he washes out at the end of the stroke. He also briefly straightens his fingers before the catch. Yet he is one of the fastest guys around. Many medals over the years in the masters nationals. Everyone marvels that he is so fast but it works for him.

But the the thing about all these people is they don't slow down the boat. What ever they do they are really smooth. There are a lot of really strong people who don't go fast because they slow down the boat.

[Rockin Roland]

Sationary ergs are notorious for encouraging poor on water technique. If you have no intention to get out on the water then there is no harm in using classic erg technique; cranking the handle and dumping the finish. That's what will give you the best spin on the erg flywheel, but don't ever try that in a boat. In a boat, relaxation of the upper body at the catch and holding onto your finishes is where it differs from the erg.

If your so concerned about technique I wouldn't recommend using a stationary C2 erg to anyone. At the very least you should put slides under the erg. Ideally there are better options of using several of the other brands of ergs which are more suited to practising rowing technique.

[iain]

but it raises the question whether unorthodox technique just works better for some people.

Comments?

I am far to inexperienced to provide an answer, but I developed compensating errors in my technique. As a result, the package of errors worked better than when any one was corrected as each helped to reduce the impact of one or more of the others. having worked on all the mjor faults for 4 months, I am now significantly faster and believe my better technique now gives me more room for improvement. However, after >1Mm of poor technique, it was a slow process that slowed me down for quite a while. I also imagine that poor technique may emphasize the muscle grops to a different degree, hence it may take time before you develop all of the required muscles for good technique to provide optimum speed.

[Jamie Pfeffer]

As usual, Paul and Nosmo answered this clearly, but also made sure to encourage you. Because you're still a relative novice, it's probably wisest to follow their advice and aim for the conventional "perfect stroke" (as defined by the British rowing coaches on the C2 site).

It's true that the Beijing Olympics showed that international-class rowers use different techniques. For example, one prominent form is called the "suspension style." These rowers' goal is generating massive torque and power with a (relatively) late body swing. To me, the paradigm boats here are the Polish mens quad and the Canadian mens eight.

At the other pole (sorry for the lame pun) is a high-rate technique that focuses on a quick, ballistic catch, with a very fast leg drive. The goal here is making the boat feel as light as possible. Rather than levering the boat down the course with an accelerating stroke, they almost leg press it with a seemingly-instant burst of force. For me, the boats that best manifested this style were the Danish and Canadian lightweight fours (no surprise given that they've had the same coach) and, quite surpisingly to me, the Canadian mens pair.

But as Paul and Nosmo say, these guys have been rowing for many years. They adopted their unique styles only after learning the same fundamental technique that nearly every rower uses. I know it can be frustrating to learn a different way to do things. If you trust the process, though, I'm quite confident that you'll have more fun and your times will improve.

Best,
Jamie

[Nosmo]

I am far to inexperienced to provide an answer, but I developed compensating errors in my technique. As a result, the package of errors worked better than when any one was corrected as each helped to reduce the impact of one or more of the others. having worked on all the major faults for 4 months, I am now significantly faster and believe my better technique now gives me more room for improvement.....

Iain makes a very insightful point. One of the frustrating things about rowing is that to make improvements one often has to back way off and row slower for a while in order to change a habit. Many people do not have the discipline to do this.