Concept2 Forum

Hi folks. I have a new Model D. I am 54, 6'3", 290lbs, way out of shape.

I got the erg to improve my conditioning and lose fat. I have also been powerlifting and I feel that my lack of overall conditioning is affecting my recovery time.

I also just got a Polar heart rate monitor this week, and the information from that confirmed to me just how bad my conditioning is.

According to the software, maximum heart rate for me is 166.

Based upon the fat loss suggested workout I started out with 5 minutes of "easy" rowing. Based upon what I have read here, I figured a 2:45 pace would be easy. I set the damper to 3 and set a pace of 24spm. The rowing effort felt light, but my heart rate was up to 158 in one minute and stayed there.

I rested a few minutes and did a 4 minute piece. I pushed harder this time and got down to around a 2:30 average. HR went up over 155 quickly and got up to 167. I repeated this one more time with similar results. I didn't feel too horrible until about 1/2 hour later and then I was very tired.

Today, I experimented with different damper settings and spm. I did 5 minutes, damper 3, SPM 16, as easy as I could about 2:50 pace. Heart rate was better, max 135, most of this was in the bottom end of my UT1. I rested a couple of minutes, and did another 5, this time damper at 6. Comfortable effort for me ended up with an average 2:35 pace, but heart rate was in the AT range for almost 3 minutes and in TR range for a minute. Rest again, set damper to 9, now I got an average 2:30 pace, but my heart rate was in AT in less than a minute and TR for the rest with a max of 163.

It felt good pulling slower SPM against the higher resistance. Gears on a bicycle is a great analogy. I couldn't help but think the erg was telling me I needed a bigger boat.

I know my 52" waist is shortening my stroke and taking away some leg drive, but I'm not quite so concerned about absolute speed at this point, just how best to get some initial conditioning so I can lose the fat and then think about more speed.

Tomorrow I'm going to try the slower SPM but also set the damper back at 3 or maybe less and see what a quicker pull feels like. My HR results from the first workout today were in line with what I think I need, but I had a lot of fatigue in the muscles one would use to pull with on recovery (psoas?) to the extent that it was a limiting factor. If I drive quicker then hopefully that will offset my momentum the way the higher damper is doing when moving more slowly.

I'm rowing strapless. Also, I'm kind of cheating on pace for now. I'm using a metronome. At 24SPM I set it in three so it was DRIVE, 2, 3, DRIVE, 2, 3 and at 16SPM I set it to four so it was DRIVE, 2, 3, 4, DRIVE, 2, 3, 4.

Not having any experience with this, do you think I should find a work level no matter how slow that lets me do some 20 to 30 minutes pieces for a while, or should I keep pounding in the upper ranges of utilization and add a minute or so to each interval as I can until I can maintain the 2:30 pace at UT2 or UT1? Maybe a combination.

I guess I'm trying to figure out how to get to a base level so I can start something like one of the interactive plans. Right now I'm really a "sub" beginner.

Thanks for reading, any advice would be great.

Bob

As a new rower I am no help to you, but wanted to say welcome.

I don't have a HR monitor, but for my first week I was worried about pace and overall time for set pieces. After a week, I decided to just work on form and have good rows. I have gotten a lot more comfortable and my times seem to be really improving. I am battling through some tennis elbow, but I think I'm really hooked!!!!

Bob, welcome! Another newbie here, I'm still working on figuring out my training regimen so can't give you any advice. My goals are identical to yours: 1. improve conditioning 2. lose weight. I've spent a lot of time searching the topics here, and the universally consistent response to losing weight has been that it is diet. Watch what you eat, and of course the volume. Good luck with both your goals!

You've been very systematic about it and have already seen plenty.

To do long pieces, for all of us, the Power has to be low to keep HR down. But the longer the piece, the more work we do; and WORK* is what we need to get and stay fit.

Warming up when we start is a great help: this can be done with the backstop drill:

Sitting on the erg with straight legs, first we pull with arms only for a minute or so; then add some swing, so that we are rowing with hands away plus swing forward. After another minute, start to lift the knees (after the swing forward). Carry on for as long as you can with increasing leg use.
If you watch Rating (spm) and Watts during the warm-up, you can see exactly what you're doing and track progress immediately and accurately.

The C2 technique video shows this warm-up procedure; it's fundamental because it also demonstrates the stroke recovery sequence.


* Work is an engineering term here, and means Force x Distance.

To build fitness and get lighter you need to make meters. Try to build to continues erging first. 30 min is a good starting point to work. Forget about pace at first, simply try to make good strokes.
Re max hf, don,t worry about that, at the moment you don,t know what that and should stay way from testing it.
Loosing weight, sports helps, but dieet is by far number one. Erging burns roughly 1000 cal per hour at 2.00 pace. So you see you have to make lots of meters to really burn fat.
For a guy like you getting on the low carb, high far wagon is best. That way you will seriously start to get rid off the fat and can build your fitness.
Make a long term plan for yourself and stick to it.

As HJS says, getting a true max HR is tough work and will make you go too hard. He will skewer me for this, but one way to build base using HR is to cap it at a safe number. Maffetone (who I don't necessarily agree with all the time) has had success with his athletes using 180-age as a formula for low intensity work HR. You could also use the "conversation" pace method, or use the method of breathing out of your nose as a way to gauge whether you are in the right low intensity zone. My guess is that all these pit you in a similar HR (they do for me) and I am not sure it needs to be an exact number. But staying in this level of effort and doing 30 or 40 or 60 minute rows will bring the pace up at that HR (at least this is what they say, I'm never patient enough to actually stick with the plan for long enough!). It's worth a shot anyway. I am wanting to build a bigger base this year and am going to see how it pans out for a couple of months. Once you plateu with that, hard intervals a couple of days a week help push you even further along.

G-dub wrote:As HJS says, getting a true max HR is tough work and will make you go too hard. He will skewer me for this, but one way to build base using HR is to cap it at a safe number. Maffetone (who I don't necessarily agree with all the time) has had success with his athletes using 180-age as a formula for low intensity work HR. You could also use the "conversation" pace method, or use the method of breathing out of your nose as a way to gauge whether you are in the right low intensity zone. My guess is that all these pit you in a similar HR (they do for me) and I am not sure it needs to be an exact number. But staying in this level of effort and doing 30 or 40 or 60 minute rows will bring the pace up at that HR (at least this is what they say, I'm never patient enough to actually stick with the plan for long enough!). It's worth a shot anyway. I am wanting to build a bigger base this year and am going to see how it pans out for a couple of months. Once you plateu with that, hard intervals a couple of days a week help push you even further along.

Agree, in this stage getting the body working is number one. No need whatsoever to push things.

Note to self: this low intensity base building period would be a great time to eat to get leaner since our body won't be asking for as many carbs.

Thanks for the welcome and information.

I should clarify about HR. I'm not trying to push it, I am finding that a pace that sounded slow based on what I have read here, about 2:30, gets my body working so hard I am at or close to max HR and I can't maintain that for more than a few minutes.

Good suggestion on warmup. I have done that but not for long enough. I will work on technique and also use some video to critique myself.

So, I need to focus on extending the time I can row and finding a combination that allows for that and get up to 30 minutes as my first real goal. I can do that. Thanks for helping me with direction.

I am paying a lot of attention to diet as well. If you look up "to be a beast" at barbell medicine I'm using the fat loss macros there as a starting point. While none of my powerlifts are up to body weight yet, deadlifts are getting close (for 5 reps) and squats aren't too far behind. I'm going to drop down to 2 weight workouts a week and put more emphasis on rowing that will help me more, and let me adjust my diet down further. I'll go two weeks this way and assess.

Thanks again.
Bob

OK, today was encouraging. I decided to go for 20 minutes, SPM 16, damper about 3 which gave me a drag factor of 92.

I watched my heart rate and did not let it get too high. I spent most of the time between 132 and 149, whenever it got over 150 I let up on the drive a bit.

Except for the recovery muscles in my legs I felt good, so tomorrow I'll go for 30 minutes.

I guess I'm on my way... Thanks again for the welcome and advice.

Well done! I think that being well hydrated helps to keep the heart rate from drifting too much (or as much). You will notice as you go for longer that the heart rate bumps up all the sudden even though your pace hasn't changed. You then have to decide to stay on pace or back it down. I think you back down when building base to keep stresses low, which can be even more challenging to ones need for speed.

Bobpond wrote:OK, today was encouraging. I decided to go for 20 minutes, SPM 16, damper about 3 which gave me a drag factor of 92.

92 is quite low for a setting of 3. It is likely that the cage needs a cleaning.

Bob S.

Bobpond wrote:
OK, today was encouraging. I decided to go for 20 minutes, SPM 16, damper about 3 which gave me a drag factor of 92.


92 is quite low for a setting of 3. It is likely that the cage needs a cleaning.

Respectfully disagree on that. 92 is only about 10 points low for a setting of three- really not enough to get the Hoover out.......C2JonW

Bob S. wrote:

Bobpond wrote:OK, today was encouraging. I decided to go for 20 minutes, SPM 16, damper about 3 which gave me a drag factor of 92.

92 is quite low for a setting of 3. It is likely that the cage needs a cleaning.

Bob S.

Thanks Bob. The rower is brand new so I'm likely describing the setting wrong. Maybe it's in the middle of the number 3 not on the line.

G-dub wrote:Well done! I think that being well hydrated helps to keep the heart rate from drifting too much (or as much). You will notice as you go for longer that the heart rate bumps up all the sudden even though your pace hasn't changed. You then have to decide to stay on pace or back it down. I think you back down when building base to keep stresses low, which can be even more challenging to ones need for speed.

Thanks. Went for 30 minutes today and I did have to back down as my HR got over 150. I feel pretty comfortable if it is around 140 to 145 even though that is not a range I'm *supposed* to maintain for 20+ minutes. The HR graph shows a steady climb with a could of drops as I slowed to get it under 150.

Today I rowed right after work, and the stress relief was terrific. I'm getting a pattern here, low drag, slow rate, HR 140 to 150, adjusting pace to kee it there or lower, and 30 minutes. Today felt really good I think I can do that 5 times a week. I do my weight workouts at 6AM.

The plan is coming together...

Thanks again all. This is good stuff.