Concept2 Forum

Interested to hear your thoughts on foot position

There was a comment on this video made by 'Georgia Lev' - "you can see at 0:28 that she is over extending at her ankles. this can be really bad for your knees". I cannot see any over-extending and ask of your opinion on Georgia's comment?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVkMzEXChLc

In this video (between 0:17 - 1:17), the guy talks about the effects of having the foot placed too low and too high in the foot stretcher. He also shows where the foot should be in relation to the foot stretcher.
Towards the end, he places his feet on the foot stretcher in which he says is the correct position. Yet, i still see his feet protruding past the top of the foot stretcher. Your thoughts?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tP_aPHINQ1c


Romper

The general rule of thumb is that the strap goes across the area of the ball of the foot.

Strap across the bend in the shoe, heel bone level with the rail.

Thanks guys

Was that girl in the first video over-extending in her ankles?



Romper

I think foot placement/angle are extremely important and I'm disappointed that the angle of the footplates cannot be changed on the Concept2. My hunch is that if you could have more surface area of your foot connected to the footplate during the leg drive, then you could transfer more power from your legs into the handle.

Does anyone know if elite on-the-water rowers pay attention to foot angle and whether the footplates on boats have adjustable angles?

sharp_rower wrote:I think foot placement/angle are extremely important and I'm disappointed that the angle of the footplates cannot be changed on the Concept2. My hunch is that if you could have more surface area of your foot connected to the footplate during the leg drive, then you could transfer more power from your legs into the handle.

I totally agree.

Do you think this ERGAdaptor would help us?

http://batlogic.net/product/erg-adapter/

Romper

sharp_rower wrote: Does anyone know if elite on-the-water rowers pay attention to foot angle and whether the footplates on boats have adjustable angles?

I have never seen shell footboards with adjustable rake. I have seen and used steering footboards which have cables attached that go to the rudder. The movement in those is sideways in either direction and it will be just one board of a pair for the bow seat of a 2- or 4-. It has been 15 years since I have been involved with OTW rowing, so there may have been changes. A short net search yielded this site:

http://www.merrimackrowing.org/news/95- ... ngle-scull

There is far too much on that site to bother with. The paragraphs pertinent to this thread are the following:

Quote
Step 9: Heel Height
Heel height is another measurement that can facilitate easier compression into the catch. The standard range is 16 to 18 centimeters from the top of the seat to the bottom of the heels. Many boats have adjustable footboards making this easy to change. If you boat has clogs, you may be able to re-drill and lower the heel cups to get a better setting.

Step 10: Rake of the Footboard
The angle of the footboard can be measured with a protractor or a goniometer (like those used in physical therapy clinics). Standard measurements should fall between 39 to 42 degrees. If you have poor ankle flexibility, it may be necessary to flatten the footboard to get into a more comfortable position at the catch. If you have good flexibility, 40 to 42 degrees is a desired setting to assist the leg drive in using the entire surface of the foot. Many performance boats have this adjustable feature, otherwise you will have to reposition the footboard and its attachments.
Unquote

3 degrees is quite a narrow range. It seems to me that it is not regarded as a big problem. Note that this is for setting up a boat for regular use for one person. At least it appears to be a one time adjustment and not something easily changed one someone else uses the boat (or seat in a multi-person boat).

Bob S.

sharp_rower wrote:I think foot placement/angle are extremely important and I'm disappointed that the angle of the footplates cannot be changed on the Concept2. My hunch is that if you could have more surface area of your foot connected to the footplate during the leg drive, then you could transfer more power from your legs into the handle.

Does anyone know if elite on-the-water rowers pay attention to foot angle and whether the footplates on boats have adjustable angles?

Not true, for the most part we drive with the ball of the feet, no the whole sole. The rowing motion is not a max effort, but only 40% ish orso. Driving true the balls is got enough. This also makes its possible for the calves to work, using the whole feet would make impossible. So feet angle is not that important, we create it ourselves via the room we leave under the heels.
Also, look at running, cycling, skiing, all done via the balls of the feet. Rowing should not be different.

Bob S. wrote:The general rule of thumb is that the strap goes across the area of the ball of the foot.

Actually, there is more to it. Raising and lowering the footrest can change the rowing feel, power, length of stroke, etc. There is a study about this. It might be worth experimenting with. And then there is the issue of shoes. I see a lot of running shoes. Too spongy. You lose power. Look at what weight lifters or cyclists wear.

The ErgAdapter looks interesting. Does it allow you to change the angle of the footplates though? That's what I'm after...

I got my hands on a new pair of New Balance Minimus "training" shoes. Very thin and lightweight, so more direct connection between my foot and the plate. Also they have allowed me to raise the footstretcher by one notch (from 3 to 2) to have more surface area of my foot connected during the drive. Couldn't do that with my previous pair because their bulk made it too awkward. My feet aren't that small but the 2-notch feels the most natural.

I guess it's a matter of feel and personal preference. The bottom line though is that the legs are the biggest muscles we have and you want to put yourself in a position where you are maximizing their power. To me the very limited adjustability of the footplates on the Concept2 is a pretty significant flaw in the machine's design...

I have good ankle flexibility and prefer Adidas "sambas" for the Olympic lifts and rowing

http://m.adidas.com/us/samba-classic-shoes/034563.html

I'm interested in trying throwers shoes like these:

http://m.eastbay.com/index.cfm?uri=prod ... brandasics

nice and flat

limited adjustability of the footplates

You can always put shims under the heels. My boat lets me adjust stretcher rake, but it doesn't make any big difference.

Actually I am interested in changing the angle in the other direction, i.e., making the footplates more perpendicular to the ground.

I think I understand now why the rule of thumb is "strap across the ball of the foot": this is where the foot folds as you're going into the catch. Lower, the strap would get in the way of your foot folding; higher, the strap wouldn't really be effective in holding you down. But why must the foot fold at all?

Look at Matthew Segal here: his feet barely move at the catch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qSQD3N9su4

I actually watched this same video last night. Pretty cool!

Any idea what the name of the shims he is using?

Romper

I would think that getting your shins to go beyond vertical would be bio mechanically inefficient because your leg muscles available at the beginning of the drive would be more limited until the shin goes beyond vertical again (more of a calf and glute movement rather than hamstring and quad movement to start? Im just going on how I feel, could be wrong).

For my shoes, I use the crossfit reebok nanos 4.0. NOW before you shit on me for mentioning crossfit, I think that the development of the shoe took into consideration that crossfiters use the erg often in their workouts, so the heelcup of the shoe seems to be custom made to fit directly into the spacing in the bottom of the foot board. Also, the shoe is very firm (for the crossfit Olympic lifts) but also flexable in the forefoot (for crossfits 'double under' skipping rope motion). No doubt in my mind that the Nike and Addias rowing shoes are likely the best for on water rowing, but for lots of erging- I absolutely love my nanos for it. Feels really 'locked' into place and the power transfer feels strong and smooth. I have a pair of addias Olympic weight lifting shoes too, and kudos to the guys who wear them to erg, but I find them really inflexible and uncomfortable to move around that much in them.