Concept2 Forum

Is there a way to convert my current cycling FTP 270W to an estimate 2k time taken into consideration weight of 66kg and 50 years of age?

Livio,

I suspect there is little relevance, unless you already did some erging, but you would not have asked the question then. I am much into FTP based training, and I try to apply this in rowing as well; I believe the cycling power zones are of similar use in rowing and also, using varying target power adds diversity to long erging sessions. Back you your question - my FTP on Wahoo Kicrk is approx. 275, so similar to yours. My rowing FTP - around 230 - 240, my time for 2k - 6:59 or 304 watts. But, please beware there may be huge discrepancy in power meter calibration - so yours 270w may be much different than mine, if your power meter measures power output differently. To give you an example - my Stages meter is around 30% off compared to Kickr (lower). I have no idea to callibrate the two, but I do not care, really. So, in my opinion, there is little predictive value in cycling FTP. You should give it a try and do 2000meters.

Als own a Kickr + outdoors Power2Max (roadbike) and TT (Stages). 2k Time at this moment is around 7:45 but want to go to below 7:20 and 25 sec are a lot. What is your weight?

76kg, age 38. I started rowing mid June and set my record 2k in September. No material progress since then due to shift in training type (SkiErg / cycling). I think my cycling FTP is not 275watts (or to put it differently - my Kickr overestimates power) but lower. More like 210-220watts, what Stages would show. I have no time to do much of the comparison because it is not that important and secondly - Wahoo is saying they will release a software update to callibrate their meter with Stages (and others) over BT.

Interesting.....set my 2k PR in September at 6:59.1; also a long time cyclist. I've gradually "morphed" into a full time erger. Even though cyclists tend to cross over nicely into erging; they really are two different things. My FTP on a TT bike was pretty abysmal, around 230w. Which I feel was accurate, because my 40k TT times were also very slow (around 1:05). My erg times are much better, as you mentioned sub-7 equates to 300w+.....but it's only for seven minutes. As a 58 yr old LWT my erg times put me near the top of the rankings....my TT times would put me at the very bottom or dead last at most events in my class. I do much better as a mass start racer (lots of top tens and several "near miss" 2nd's); but mass start is a totally different animal. I never felt like I could develop power on a TT bike (I was proven right by the power meter!); but I felt comfortable from the very first time I sat on an erg.

The point of this rambling? Really two different animals as far as power development. With that said ergers/ cyclists seem to cross over nicely and a few of my racing team mates got into off season erging and it seemed to help tremendously.

Just took another look at your PR's, the comparison to mine is uncanny:

500m : 1:33.4
1000m: 3:21.3
2000m: 6:59.1
5000m: 18:52.2
6000m: 22:43
10000m: 39:17

We're the same size (I'm right at 75kg). My 1000m time is a bit faster than yours probably due to the fact I was specifically training for three weeks at 1k for an event. Out of curiousity; what is your 40k TT time?

Definition: FTP is the amount of wattage a rider can produce for one hour without fatigue.

There is no doubt that cycling FTP correlates pretty well with rowing, unless the cyclist has an unusally weak upper body. Cycling does require upper body strength. There may not be a reliable mathematical formulation, but the ability to produce watts on a bike is translatable to a rower once the cyclist gets the rudiments of rowing down. I think a 270 W bicyclist [4.1W/kg] should definitely be in 7:15 range for 2K, if not better. In my good cycling yrs, I was a 350 W cyclist [4.1W/kg] and translated that a few yrs later into a 6:40.7 2K [~350W] and a 17:34 5K [~295W].

Thanks Jim..... been away from the "bikie" stuff for awhile;forgot that FTP (funtional threshold power?) was average watt out put for one hour. No way I could pull 230w for an hour on the erg, best to date around 210w. So not too far off. As you noted, once a cyclist develops decent erg technique, the aerobic ability to produce power transfers nicely. Along with ability to hang for long periods of time at the pain threshold and the ability to "float" right at threshold and make micro adjustments to keep from crashing. The TT crowd has this down to a science.

Edward4492 wrote:The TT crowd has this down to a science.

Edward, time trials were my thing. Put it in 53:15 and just crank - no stops, just steady pain. It is a lot like rowing in having to endure discomfort nonstop - no coasting. My best rowing for 60mins is 257W. Not exactly 350W. But all this talk of translating power requires some creative thinking. I'm not sure, but I suspect that my bike power for 7 mins would have been around 450 Watts. So there is a drop for me from biking to rowing for similar times.

I am not much of a cyclist, really. Rather a casual cyclist who bought power meter this fall and discovered new dimension to cycling - and I have it in my MTB bike, so nowaydays this is mostly offroad. My best road cycling season was in 2010 when I did something like 5000km in three months, but again, that was pretty casual across the country cycling, I simply liked it a lot. My best 40km in that period was 1 hour 15 minutes, so nothing compared to Jim's ! But this was not a TT, just best 40km found in my longer road workouts during 2010. I have never cycled in much of the races or anything or had time and dedication to train for such events. Now I share my workout time among erging, cross country skiing (therefore SkiErg) and indoor cycling (winter season). Out of roughly 30-32 hours I put in monthly 65% goes into rowing and cycling, 25% skiing and a bit of other cardio stuff. So I am not so great in anything, just do a bit of everything - skiing will be my game for the next 2-3 months, a couple of races are coming.

Re FTP - I came across a slightly more "relaxed" definition - a pace which can be sustained for 60 minutes. Period. So you can stop after an hour. What I also noticed in cycling workouts that depend on FTP and scale the effort based on it and in accordance with specific training goals (like increasing lactate threshold) is that they are really demanding. For example 5 intervals of 3 minutes at 120% FTP is just about what I can produce, it is a maximal effort, but achievable. I created some plans based on similar principles for rowing and they also work well, the only required modification is the need to reduce the damper setting for the recovery parts of the workout. Using them introduces a bit of diversity in erging sessions and 45-60 minutes on a rower go simply faster.

Livio Livius wrote:Is there a way to convert my current cycling FTP 270W to an estimate 2k time taken into consideration weight of 66kg and 50 years of age?

I think the problem is one of comparing apples vs oranges. The range of movement on a bike is different (one leg working at a time continually with very little from the core and arms (unless you're out of the saddle climbing a big hill)) to that on a rower (both legs together on the drive then torso then arms then rest on the recovery). Also the cadence is a lot different at 75 -100 RPM on the bike and 20 to 30 SPM on the rower.

The CV load is much the same and rowing will help with that for the cyclist.

Another item of difference is the amount of unmeasured energy expended. On the indoor rowers, there is quite a lot of unmeasured work done accelerating the body up and down the slide. There is no doubt some similar loss in bicycling, but I doubt that it is anywhere near as much as on an indoor rower.

Bob S.

That is why I was saying earlier that I doubt very seriously that one could mathematically state a relationship between cycling power and rowing power, even though I know there is a connection. There is absolutely no doubt that my extensive cycling enabled me to go sub-current-WR for 65+ within 100 days of starting rowing. But to specifically say how many watts on a bike equals how many watts on a rower would have to be a big guess.

http://www.wattbikeranking.com/

Here results on the wattbike, also some toprowers in there.

Interesting discussion. Lots of good points. I would agree that you really can't draw a direct correlation. FTP on the bike is something you develop over time and you have a good feel for this wattage for TTs mainly and other individual efforts. In learning rowing this year, it does seem important to learn the proper technique and skill over time before you can draw any comparisons. Motion is so different and the C2 Rower is likely to calibrate differently than a Powertap, SRM, etc. I am about at 20:00 minutes now for 5000m and I did that at 195 watts and my cycling FTP is 265-270. I am sure once I further develop the technique and stroke, the watts will go up and time will go down. I guess the most important thing is once you have that figure for rowing, you work with it. The timing and intensity are also different. I can't row for an hour (at least not yet) at an FTP type rate that you might have for Time Trial. Might never get back on the rower. 20 minutes seems like the max right now!