Concept2 Forum

Should weight lifting be incorporated into a training program?

I say yes, with the primary strength 'goal' exercises being the squat, deadlift, clean and jerk, and bench press (to a somewhat lesser extent for rowers, but still important). There would of course, be ancillary exercises in the program. I use a five day split like this.

(I'm in the off season for my high school - we only compete in spring)
Mon
Tues
Wed - Off I do cardio though
Thurs
Fri
Sat
Sun - Off Cardio

IMO everyone no matter what age (well not too young but you know what I mean) or sex they are, no matter what sport they take part in, everyone should do at least 1 weights session a week (more if possible). It has lots of benefits that carry over into everyday life and if you are a rower and do sport specific weights it will help with your rowing and even if you just do a general all over body weights workout it will help balance out your body making you fitter and healthier. All just my opinion of course .

don't lift heavy weights until you've got the technique to do it safely.

Starting Strength by Mark Rippetoe is a good book.

I use a five day split like this.

Why would you use a bodybuilding split if you intend on being an athlete? Drop the bull**** exercises, lift 2-3 times a week, spend the rest of your energy on cardio work.

I completed in olympic weightlifting for a year or two in my 20's, and it is of NO use for competitive athletics.

However, exercises such as swimmers, cyclists, triathletes, wrestlers and other competitive athletes do are quite useful.

The difference is using resistance that is suitable for much longer time periods.

I agree that weightlifting is important. Focus on the core and add flexibility and balnce to the routine. Some of the Underground/boot camp type excercises use you whole body with sandbags, kettle balls etc. You get a better all around fitness level than machines or isolation lifts. And they're more "fun" becasue you're with a group.

Ed McNeely sketches a good periodization program in "Rowing Faster". It emphsizes speed through the lift and focuses on rowing specific routines.

I've actually read Mark Rippetoe's book and was on his program for quite a long time. Right now I'm using a five day split that includes compounds as the core of it - I'm not really into the bodybuilder isolation exercises. I decided to try a new program because I got bored and it's also the summer so I have more time. Rippetoe's program only calls for three days a week of lifting. When school starts up again, I'll likely switch back to something like Bill Starr's 5x5 routine.

Tomorrow is my back day, so I'll just leave an example of what I'll be doing. I feel that most of these are all beneficial in strengthening the muscles used in rowing.

Deadlifts
Bent Rows
Close V-Grip Seated Rows
Pull Downs

3 sets by 5 reps with challenging weight. That's all. Under one hour. Don't ever need to spend more than an hour in the gym.

Right now I'm focusing on getting stronger pound per pound as I can. After I'm done training this way (when it's closer to season) I'll build up my cardio even better. My goals for this season is to bring down my 2k into the lower 6:30s range. Right now I'm at 6:44.

I concur with your thoughts on the amount of time needed in the gym. I also agree with your choice of compounds rather than isolation exercises as well as the intensity the lifting should be done at. Where I would suggest you reconsider your training is in the following statement:

After I'm done training this way (when it's closer to season) I'll build up my cardio even better.

Unless you have a strength deficiency (and my guess is that you don't given what you've said here about lifting), then cardio will be your limiting factor. If you can maintain this lifting schedule along with 4-6 hours of cardio workouts a week, then go ahead. If you cannot, then honestly I think you are hurting your long term 2k goal. The goal should be to improve your cardio all year round. Only time this ever takes a back seat is for 1-2 weeks after your championships or if you have a noted deficiency.

I used to do lots of weightlifting (3x a week during winter season) when I was younger..
I hated it, but it sure did help.

As I now only row for fun, I do weights very now and then, and still don't enjoy them...
I'm not sure how much I could get my 2k time down if I started a regular weight schedule....

hey what do you all think of the following cycle for weightlifting:
1)do 3 sets of 20reps for 3weeks 3days/wk
2) do 3 sets of 10 for the same duration
3) do 5 sets of 3-6 (or a similar routine that emphasize max strength)
4) do 3 sets of 60reps

and then repeat, so you'd go in 12week rotations. i got something like this in a triathlon book, but there they want you to do a cycle just once and then maintain your results, and it seems the purpose of the program is to prevent injuries. while i'm more interested in improving performance. so what kind of results should i expect? and would it be wise to perhaps lengthen or shorten some of these 1-4 and why?

also i have experience doing pullups and dips, and i use mostly 3) and 1) type training. but now i'm starting to do deadlifts and stepups and i'm completely new to these exercises. my deadlift is very weak for now...

ilost,

With that cycle and your seemingly novice starting point you should expect performance gains in your lifting provided you have sound eating and sleeping habits.

The domain for which that cycle will take your rowing performance to a higher level is much much narrower though and you would have to provide more information about yourself and your training to determine whether you are in that domain.

All that lifting may very well be too much though, both for rowing and for general purposes in comparison to the returns. There have been large economic interests setting up the "lifting lore" in commercial gyms and I think that have allowed for the "common knowledge" being drawn to an idea that you need to lift much more than is actually necessary, that you need the pricey full membership. I believe that the necessity to train a lot to see gains is a natural and common but incorrect presumption amongst beginners and that there are too much interests against exploring and exposing the alternatives to that approach. I'am basing this on my own experience.

I started weight training more than 10 years ago with a full membership at a gym and trained for 2 hours per day, 6 days a week and saw good results (+9kg fist year, +6kg second year). Having aquired the skills to train properly I now know I can gain 11kg in half a year (70->81kg) just lifting for an hour about once every two weeks or twice every three weeks, which I did last fall.

Sure, some of that may be due to a bodily memory of having had more muscles some years ago, but there is no knowing if that is so, and to what extent. Therefore I see my approach as interesting not only for experienced people but also for beginners.

Less is more. Right now I'm doing 3 days a week full body.

Carl Henrik wrote:...
just lifting for an hour about once every two weeks or twice every three weeks, which I did last fall.
...

Carl. This amount of weightlifting seems just fine to me.
Can you send some further details regarding your weights schedule?

If you're after overall fitness or maintenance, you don't need to work any muscle group more than once a week. I'm after steady strength gains regardless of size, and I still only work each muscle once a week. The key is to keep changing the exercises you do, so your muscles never adapt and you never plateau. For example, when I'm doing a chest/back day, I choose a random 2 or 3 of the following exercises for my back, avoiding the same combinations within months of each other (though there are literally enough combinations in here to not repeat for 7 years):

Bent-over rows
Single arm bent-over rows
Renegade rows
Lat pulldowns with palms facing in and close grip
Lat pulldowns with palms facing out and wide grip
Pullups
Chinups
Low rows
Pullovers

On top of that, I do each exercise in a different way each time I do it:

5x5
5x10 or to failure
3x8
pyramid (100lbs 120lbs 140lbs 120lbs 100lbs, for example)
breathing ladder (big movements only, like deadlifts and power cleans and swings)
countdown (when doing a superset)

That offers enough variation to keep the muscles from being able to adapt to anything. All that being said, I think it's important to lift if for no other reason than so your muscles are proportional to each other. If your back is really strong from rowing, but you never exercise your chest, you run the risk of having your shoulders rolled forward in an unnatural position. One of my cousins had this problem from indoor climbing, and had to start setting aside a day each week to go to the gym to work her chest and the front of her shoulders.

Have you experimented with sets of 10- or 20-stroke pieces, rowed on the erg at the heaviest damper setting? Because I've always been an unnatural lightweight, I've struggled to increase strength without building too much muscle. So my sophmore year of college, my coach used to have me move the Model B chain to the heaviest setting. I'd row pieces with just the legs, then legs and back, then the whole stroke. It worked well for me.
14 or 15 years later, I still train that way (only now it's much easier to change the erg's resistance).

Good luck. Keep us posted.

Best,
Jamie