average HR increase throughout 60 minutes

[sammac112]

I want to begin training with some longer pieces of 40-60 minutes. To prevent myself from going out to hard, I was wondering what the normal heart rate increase is for such a piece?
If possible, it would be great to include increase spread out between 10 minute intervals.

Thanks alot

[Snail Space]

It depends on how hard you go, and on wether you level pace or not.

I now do 60' sessions as my default: my HR increases to 140 over the first 10', and then drifts up to about 155 over the following 50'. I like to finish as fast as I can, so my HR over the last 3' approaches 175.

Cheers
Dave

[almostflipped]

If possible, it would be great to include increase spread out between 10 minute intervals.

Too many variables for that. How hot is it? How much have you drank? How efficient is your technique? How appropriate is your pacing? Etc, etc, etc....

Snail's was a great response. If you choose wisely you can expect a 10-15 beat increase. More or less the item to watch is how your HR rises. After about 10' it ought to be reasonably slow and steady. If you suddenly shift several beats in the span of a few strokes, then odds are you've changed something without noticing. Of course even this is prone to exceptions, so just do a once over your technique, focus on relaxing, and continue on.

[almostflipped]

sorry about the double post.

[PaulS]

I want to begin training with some longer pieces of 40-60 minutes. To prevent myself from going out to hard, I was wondering what the normal heart rate increase is for such a piece?
If possible, it would be great to include increase spread out between 10 minute intervals.

Thanks alot

What Paces do you do for shorter pieces (that keep your HR in your desired range)? 20minutes? 30minutes?

I don't subscribe to HR specific training at all, but if you do that's fine, we can work with it regardless.

From that we can estimate a good target for the longer pieces, then you can adjust it from there once you are doing them.

[Snail Space]

I've added graphs of heart rate and pace for this morning's 60 minute row so that you can see the gradual drift upwards in HR over the course of the hour. It was not an all-out effort, although I was breathing heavily and sweating profusely by the end; I felt comfortable throughout.

Merely so that you have info that gives perspective to the data, I am 50 and started exercising 8 months ago for the first time in 20 years. Until then I was 20kg (44 lb) overweight, and got breathless on light exertion (kicking a football around with my son). My current 2K time is 7:13 and I'm fit enough to have more fun with the kids.

Ignore the actual HR and paces, but rather just observe the magnitude of the drift. I rowed in my garage, with the doors open, the ambient temperature was about 18degC.



The saw-tooth HR pattern is because I row all my long sessions on a Wolverine level 4 inspired regimen [I don't do the whole plan] with alternating short periods, each of 18 or 20spm [higher at the end of the hour].



Hope you find that interesting.

Cheers
Dave

[Gerhard]

The saw-tooth HR pattern is because I row all my long sessions on a Wolverine level 4 inspired regimen

Do you follow wolverine-intervals for specific training purposes, or against boredom or for any other reason?

I find it much easier to do wolverine-like intervals than straight pace sessions. I can do a 6K in alternating 1K intervals at pace 2.10 and 2.00 (avg around 2.05), but I don't think I could do it at straight pace 2.05. I think I might benefit from the wolverine level 4 workouts..

[Nosmo]

I find it much easier to do wolverine-like intervals than straight pace sessions. I can do a 6K in alternating 1K intervals at pace 2.10 and 2.00 (avg around 2.05), but I don't think I could do it at straight pace 2.05. I think I might benefit from the wolverine level 4 workouts..

Is this just an issue of maintaining concentration or getting bored? A steady pace should be significantly easier then what you are doing. Have you tried starting at 2:10 and increasing the pace by 2 seconds every 1K? Do you warm up before the 6K piece? No warm could be part of the reason you find alternating easier.

Generally I find it easiest to start a little slow and build. So for a 5K (I haven't done 6K's) I may start at say a 2:00 for the first 500 or 1000m, then bring it up to 1:57-1:58 for then next 3K and then finish off the last 1000 at a 1:55 or so. If I'm going for a record or trying to do a fast time, I'll warm up really well start much faster and try to keep the pace fairly steady until near the end where I may pick it up.

None of this is to say that you should do what I do, varying the pace like you do is a good idea (depending on how fast)

[tbartman]

Sammac112,

You might find this interesting:

I've been doing some HR training for a while, and just had testing to find my VO2 max and max HR so that I can get really precise and intense into training for the winter indoor races. I went to the C2 UK website (under training) where you can enter your data (age, best 2k, resting and max hr, etc.) and it will give you a training plan either for preparing for a 2k or for weight loss.

Interestingly, based on my data and fitness level, it said my anaerobic threshold band was 159-165 (155 was measured on my testing) which it thought would be a pace of 1:58-1:53. So after a warmup I sped up to 1:53, and my HR rose quickly at first, then more slowly, to exactly 165 and never went higher for an additional 6 minutes. I did a 6 minute rest at 2:30, and went to 1:53 again and the HR again hit 165 and locked in there for 7 minutes more.

If you take the sawtooth out of Snail's chart, you can see that the curve is flattening out at around the mid 150s.

So, the point is that if you row at a steady pace, your HR should climb relatively rapidly to what is needed to sustain that level of output, then should stay pretty darn level after that (assuming that it is physiologically possible to sustain that pace for the time you are trying). If you want to row 40-60 minutes, you'll have to be in your UT2 band (fully aerobic). Use the UK calculator to estimate the max HR you want to be at. Then start your row and aim for that HR. Once you are there, slow to the pace that allows it to climb no further. Then you have found the pace that equates to that HR for you at the current time. In subsequent rows, you can go right to that pace, and your HR should lock in within the first few minutes of the row. As you get more fit, your UT2 band won't change (you'll want the same HR for the long row), but you'll find that it requires a faster pace to keep your HR there.

Back to Snail's chart, you may say it took him 10k to reach that steady state HR, but he was doing intervals. If you look at the upswing of the first one or two teeth, you'll see that if he hadn't slowed down, he would have hit the low 150s by 2-3k max. I'll bet if he goes to a pace of 2:00 and just stays there, his HR will be about 155 within 2k, and then would stay there almost indefinitely (he's probably below AT, and could do this for hours).

[Snail Space]

Do you follow wolverine-intervals for specific training purposes, or against boredom or for any other reason?

I do them simply to provide variety for the 40-60' rows. Until I discovered the Wolverine plan I couldn't sit on an ergo for more than about 20' before irresistible boredom set in.

I don't follow the plan at all - I just do the Level 4 sessions. In fact the Level 4 sessions are the only ones I do: no sprints (apart from the last 3' of a 40-60' session), no intervals. I managed a continuous 40' for the first time in about January, but recently have been building up the volume, with the intention of making my default training session 60' x4-5 per week.

My 2K time has come down from 7:42 to 7:13 after 7 months of this. I may change my training strategy when my 2K times stop improving. Maybe! I just enjoy my hour of Level 4, so why change.

Cheers
Dave

[Snail Space]

Back to Snail's chart, you may say it took him 10k to reach that steady state HR, but he was doing intervals. If you look at the upswing of the first one or two teeth, you'll see that if he hadn't slowed down, he would have hit the low 150s by 2-3k max. I'll bet if he goes to a pace of 2:00 and just stays there, his HR will be about 155 within 2k, and then would stay there almost indefinitely (he's probably below AT, and could do this for hours).

Mmm, you've triggered my curiosity.
Guess what I'll be trying next time out; although last time I tried to row a long piece at one continuous pace I succumbed to boredom after about 20'.

could do this for hours

I might not be able to agree on that one!

If I manage it I'll post the heart rate graph. In fact, why not post the HR graph even if I fail, so that you can witness the chagrin of a feeble mind!
What's the german word for it? schadenfreude.

Cheers
Dave

[tbartman]

Snail,

Thanks for trying this. I'd like to find out if I'm full of B.S.

BTW, what did you use to make those charts? Is it some software that integrates with the PM3/PM4, or do you have it record every 50m and then make an excel spreadsheet?

Finally, if you are below your anaerobic threshold (and stay there), you should not build any lactic acid, and therefore should be able to go indefinitely (boredom and fluids aside). This is how people can go 3-4 hours for running/rowing marathons. If you know (or can estimate) the HR for your AT, and subtract 1-2 bpm for good measure, this is where you want to be for maximal calorie burn (biggest output without risk of premature fatigue). When I was in weight-loss mode, I'd row at a HR of about 150 for 40-50 minutes 4-5x/wk, and lost 75 lbs in about 8 months.

(p.s. one trick I use for the long pieces is to count songs on my iPod (I'll guess I'll need 10 songs for 40 minutes, and count down with each new song. Time seems to go faster in 3-4 minute chunks (only 6 songs left! etc.)

[Snail Space]

Schadenfreude time! I just couldn't last an hour: physically yes, but mentally I was shot to pieces. I guess I'm too used to my "sawtooth".

You were bang on the money with your HR prediction for 2:00/500m though.

Here's an analysis of the stroke consistency




I'll post more about the graphs after my shower and breakfast.

Cheers
Dave

[Gerhard]

Have you tried starting at 2:10 and increasing the pace by 2 seconds every 1K?

I'll give it a try; You may also be right about the warmup (I do sort of 'warm up', but only about 1K at 2.30).

[Snail Space]

BTW, what did you use to make those charts? Is it some software that integrates with the PM3/PM4, or do you have it record every 50m and then make an excel spreadsheet?

Chris Brett has written some software to interface with the PM3/PM4 (PMI). You only need rudimentary visual basic (it's all I've got), and a USB lead to connect PM3 to PC, to use it. The VBA that sits behind Excel is enough. If you have your own C2, the USB lead came in the package.

I used PMI to log stroke-by-stroke data into an Excel spreadsheet, and then created code modules to graph things like pace, SPM and heart rate. I was also interested in how well my stroke output conformed to the Wolverine prescription, so I created a routine to calculate mean (and standard deviation) of pace, watts, and distance per stroke, at each stroke rate. The graphs are programmatically created as GIF files, and the analysis report is also automatically created as a HTM file.

I've uploaded my Snailmon.xls so that you can have a look, but I hadn't intended it for widespread use, so I haven't spent time adding error-checking or irritating quirks. If you try it you will need to download and install Chris's PMI software. Then go into the code behind the "Output" form in my spreadsheet and change

sPath = "d:\rowing\snailmon\log"

to

sPath = "c:\your\path" which you must have already created on your PC.

When you use the file Click on either a preset time or distance; wait until the PM3/4 indicates that the time or distance has been set; then row. When the session is finished, click "Stop", then "Plot", then "Save". Your session's data will then be saved to a file (named as "yyyymmdd-hhmm.xls") in your log path, along with yyyymmdd-hhmmpace.gif, yyyymmdd-hhmmhr and yyyymmdd-hhmmrpt.htm. Snailmon.xls will have been closed without saving changes, so that it can be used again next time.

Cheers
Dave