Concept2 Forum

Hi could you please post what are considered to be similar in difficulty results in various activities? for example if someone ergs 2k in 7:00, what should be his times in 5k erg, 10k erg, 1mile run, 5k run, 10k run, max # of pushups, pullups, 1armed pullups, muscleups, pistols(squat using only yr bodyweight but only using 1 leg) to be considered equally impressive.

As standard please use 10k run times of 40:00 and 35:00 (2 different levels that is).

Also so far my unimpressive results:
2k erg 7:50
5k erg 20:08 (i had 22-23 before when i used 38spm instead of 26-28)
10k erg -dont know but ive comleted it a few times
1mile run (on treadmill, i know it's not the same as running on a track but i use it to track down my progress) -dont know but >5:00 and <6:00
i think i used 800m intervals at 5:13 pace before getting injured 2wks ago, but i may be mistaken.
5k run -dont know
10k run-dont know
pullups-15(but i used to do 20)
1armed pullups-0
muscleups-3
pushups-about 40
pistols-5

2k = 2k
5k = 2k split + 4-10 (depending on training and time of year)
10k = 5k split + 2-5 (depending on training and time of year)

Never found any correlation between rowing and the other items you have posted. Perhaps one could say that as one's erg scores get better all other aspects will improve from their baseline (except pushups which is not the same muscles). However there really are no direct correlations (ex: my college roommate could run about 30-40" faster over the mile but was 12" slower on the erg).

One also needs to consider size when converting. A 7' 2k for a collegiate male is considered very easy (regardless of size). So breaking it does not imply great performance in other aspects. But you will likely see better performance in running if said athlete was a lightweight rather than a heavyweight.

btw, what is a muscleup?

2k = 2k

Brilliant!!

btw, what is a muscleup?

Perhaps??

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muscle_Up_a_Little_Closer

Quote:
2k = 2k


Brilliant!!

I certainly thought so

Edit:
I just found muscleups online. They look interesting and I imagine the limiting factor would be a rower's tricep strength. I'm not in good shape these days but will give them a try tomorrow so I can make a better comparison.

almostflipped wrote:2k = 2k
5k = 2k split + 4-10 (depending on training and time of year)
10k = 5k split + 2-5 (depending on training and time of year)

Never found any correlation between rowing and the other items you have posted. Perhaps one could say that as one's erg scores get better all other aspects will improve from their baseline (except pushups which is not the same muscles). However there really are no direct correlations (ex: my college roommate could run about 30-40" faster over the mile but was 12" slower on the erg).

One also needs to consider size when converting. A 7' 2k for a collegiate male is considered very easy (regardless of size). So breaking it does not imply great performance in other aspects. But you will likely see better performance in running if said athlete was a lightweight rather than a heavyweight.

btw, what is a muscleup?

sorry, i meant i was looking for a correlation assuming the person trained for that sport specifically. that way you could even find a correlation between golf and rowing. so let's say that you row 2k in 7:00 and you can't make a college team, but you can probably get noticed in the gym.. what would be equally impressive for a 1mile run or 10k run,etc? also what scores/activities might really turn heads in the gym?
i understand that a heavyweight is better suited for rowing than running, but unless you go to elite levels, your fitness level is probably more important than your height/weight.

muscleup is http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/muscle-up_loyd.wmv you can do it on a regular pullup bar but you're not supposed to touch the bar with your chest.

almostflipped wrote: They look interesting and I imagine the limiting factor would be a rower's tricep strength. I'm not in good shape these days but will give them a try tomorrow so I can make a better comparison.

it's a completely different exercise because you use different intensities(you dont pull your whole body weight with your arms in rowing). but i wouldnt be surprised if quiete few rowers liked to do pullups, pushups,etc.

sorry, i meant i was looking for a correlation assuming the person trained for that sport specifically. that way you could even find a correlation between golf and rowing.

Ok, so you aren't saying if I row 7' 2k then I should run XYZ mile. You are more saying that in terms of difficulty a 7' 2k is around XYZ running. Hmmm, well I guess one would say breaking 6' (heavyweight) or 6:15 (lightweight) for 2k is like breaking 4' for running a mile. A 6:25 (heavyweight) or 6:40 (lightweight) is probably something around a 5-6' minute mile (not impossible, but takes some work). A 6:45 (heavyweight) or 7' (lightweight) is probably akin to a 6.5-7' mile (you might not do it the first time, but with a bit of training will do it soon after). This is using a collegiate aged male because I am not familiar with women's running times. Likewise I have no idea about conversions to 5k's or 10k's as I do not follow running closely.

In terms of the pullups, lets say 6'/6:15 is akin to 30+, 6:25/6:40 is akin to 15+, 6:40/7' is akin to 10+. For one armed pullups, lets say 6'/6:15 is akin to 10+, 6:25/6:40 is akin to 1+, 6:40/7' is akin to 0+. For pushups, lets say 6'/6:15 is akin to 150+, 6:25/6:40 is akin to 75, 6:40/7' is akin to 40.
No idea about pistols and didn't get chance to swing by the park to try muscleups today.

Basically, the top tier times I listed are a seperate class indeed. If you can do those then you are akin to being in the top 1% of any particular concept. The second tier I listed is a dime a dozen. It shows that you have invested time in a solid training regime but is not spectacular. The third tier is basic strength. You may have to workout some to get there and get comfortable with the motion, but barring a physical handicap there is no reason someone shouldn't get there. Mind you of course, these rankings are all opinion based on experience. Nothing scientific about this.

almostflipped wrote:

sorry, i meant i was looking for a correlation assuming the person trained for that sport specifically. that way you could even find a correlation between golf and rowing.

Ok, so you aren't saying if I row 7' 2k then I should run XYZ mile. You are more saying that in terms of difficulty a 7' 2k is around XYZ running. Hmmm, well I guess one would say breaking 6' (heavyweight) or 6:15 (lightweight) for 2k is like breaking 4' for running a mile. A 6:25 (heavyweight) or 6:40 (lightweight) is probably something around a 5-6' minute mile (not impossible, but takes some work). A 6:45 (heavyweight) or 7' (lightweight) is probably akin to a 6.5-7' mile (you might not do it the first time, but with a bit of training will do it soon after). This is using a collegiate aged male because I am not familiar with women's running times. Likewise I have no idea about conversions to 5k's or 10k's as I do not follow running closely.
.

hey thanks. i have somewhere tables for converting run times between 2k, 5k, and 10k. so i havent had much progress in training this summer. i think the rowing time that i posted in july i would not be able to repeat it right now, and the same is true of running. but i'll try to train more consistently now. i think i could run a mile in about 5:30 in july and could erg 2k in 7:50 and 5k in 20:08. so i now have new questions:

1) i notice that my top time for rowing 10k is about 42:00 and i run 10k in about 42:00. should someone of my size(5'8, 150-5lbs) be significantly faster in running than in rowing? i think i have much more potential to improve my running though because if i run at sub6 minute pace, i can still last at least 10mins before passing out. i think once i start to be able to run >twice per week without getting injured, my times will drop very quickly. but erging at the same pace, 1:50, i cant even last a 1000m, even 1:55 is completely unbearable for me. i will include speed intervals in my routine(i havent done this much because im still working on generally getting in shape), but i havent done many intervals in running either.

2) what spm should i use when going all out? i usually now do 26-28spm and level 5 on the erg. my split tends to vary between 2:00 and 2:15 depending on how tired i am and on whether there are any hot girls watching. if i want to sprint at the end of 10k, last 500m or so, i can do 30spm at 1:50 pace but it quickly makes me dead in 2 ways: 1 is the same as from running(cardio) and the other is same as from doing pushups/pullups.
i can also do 30+ spm at a much lower pace and then i still get a good cardio workout but i realize that my technique then completely sucks...

but i've also done 1:50 at 24spm for about 500m (also during a segment of 10k). and it felt to me almost like doing pushups. i.e. i got tired very quickly but i wasnt really out of breath... so if i want to improve performance for 2k or 5k, should i try to work at this lower spm? it also felt to me like i could train myself to last much longer than 500m, while if i go at 27+, i just run out of breath when i go below 2:00.

"ilost"
It's pointless comparing running to rowing as you are comparing an aerobic activity to a power endurance activity. Furthermore, running uses only a fraction of the muscle groups used in rowing.

It appears that you would be far better suited to running than rowing however I don't think you would be any good at either sports simply because you don't train enough.

If you struggle to hold 1:55 pace for 1000m then you have very poor power endurance. A more dedicated approach to your training on the erg will improve that. I do not suggest though trying to build up your strength on the erg by doing low rating/high pressure workouts as in your case would most likely lead to injury.

A flat out piece on the erg requires a stroke rate in the low to mid 30s but if your technique is as poor as you say then you'd just be thrashing up and down the slide. Hence before you do anything on the erg you need to get your technique right first.

Thank you for the reply. I am certain that i will never get the same times as you in either running or rowing, it's about genes too. but i think if i could get a 7:00 2k, it would still be pretty good. I dont see anybody at my school gym being able to maintain even a 2:00 split. i thought rowing was as much aerobic as running, mainly because lightweight women can still do fairly well. if you compared women with men at events like pullups(a real power endurance activity), the disparity would be much greater.

I can tell that rowing uses quads much more than running, and i never really trained my legs. I've been doing pullups for a long time, but i have just 2weeks ago started to do deadlifts and stepups. but as for back muscles, they dont even feel sore for me. I dont know how to get injured with rowing, as i can do a set at the highest intensity and it only warms up my back and forearms for doing pullups. I still think that even if i could squat 200lbs a 100 times(i can't), it wouldnt improve my rowing as much, because i would still run out of breath quickly if i tried to row at 30spm+. How many pullups can you do?

Also i'm interested in crosstraining because while i find that in erging it's impossible to get injured and it builds muscle to an extent(though not as much as non-aerobic sports), it's not very fun for me. I mean after i'm done with a 10k i can walk just fine but if i try to do the same 10k the following day, i feel tired and sore at the beginning. With running it's not nearly as bad, but i get injured very easily. Also, my rowing times vary greatly based on my mood, if there is a girl using a stairmaster right behind me, i will definitely get a PB time, even if i came in sore. And if some girl keeps walking around i lose my concentration and cant even keep <2:10. With running, my performance is only affected by whether i'm injured or sore. Btw running up a 5% incline makes my legs sore just like rowing. But once i stop getting injured, i would like to be able to do about 3-4hrs of running per week(5 sessions) and 2-3hrs of rowing per week (3 sessions). But in the immediate future i see myself doing 2hrs of rowing and 1 hr of running per week. I am still not fit enough to row 10k every day without getting tired out and not healthy enough to run every day.

I think i will row tomorrow. But right now i'm puzzled as to what spm i should try to maintain. I understand the concepts of steady state vs interval workouts, as they're the same in running and every other sport. But i have no idea about spm, i may get the same race times at 24 and at 27spm or at level5 vs level10 resistance, but the feeling at the end is like i've done 2 different sports. I think i may try to do 24spm tomorrow and 27 on tuesday. I think if i tried to do my best time for 500m, then 30+ spm would be best, but at any longer distance my time would actually start to worsen as i go 28+. So i dont understand how and why people train at 25 and lower but race at 30+.

Rockin Roland wrote:"ilost"
It's pointless comparing running to rowing as you are comparing an aerobic activity to a power endurance activity. Furthermore, running uses only a fraction of the muscle groups used in rowing.

It appears that you would be far better suited to running than rowing however I don't think you would be any good at either sports simply because you don't train enough.

If you struggle to hold 1:55 pace for 1000m then you have very poor power endurance. A more dedicated approach to your training on the erg will improve that. I do not suggest though trying to build up your strength on the erg by doing low rating/high pressure workouts as in your case would most likely lead to injury.

A flat out piece on the erg requires a stroke rate in the low to mid 30s but if your technique is as poor as you say then you'd just be thrashing up and down the slide. Hence before you do anything on the erg you need to get your technique right first.