Finally getting SPM down, at least a bit...

[parishd]

Vitals first: I'm 53 yo, 6', 207.5 lbs, rowing on a model B at a DF of 176 (as low as it will go without modification). For the last 3 months my workouts have been to row for 60 min sessions, 6 days/week, with splits ranging between 2:07-2:14min/500m (held steady for any given row).

I am comfortable and seem to have a natural inclination to row at 26 SPM, which I can easily sustain for 60+ min. I have read quite a bit here on rowing at significantly lower rates, something that I am having a great deal of difficulty with. Over the last 2 months I have been able to lower my rate to 24 SPM (rowing @ 2:12min/500m for 60 min) and today, for the first time, I was able to drop my rate to 22 for the same workout. Not only that, I was able to drop the rate to 17-18 SPM during the recovery and retain some semblance of smoothness throughout the cycle; I've never been able to go below 20 before so I'm pretty psyched.

Is there merit in trying to further drop my rate, say to a steady 18 SPM for the 60 min piece? I'm not really training for anything in particular, just interested in improving for its own sake.

Thanks for any advice.

Daniel

[chgoss]

Is there merit in trying to further drop my rate, say to a steady 18 SPM for the 60 min piece? I'm not really training for anything in particular, just interested in improving for its own sake. Daniel

I dont really know, some very talented people advocate low rate work, other equally talented people just the opposite..
I myself do a lot of strapless work, which limits me to 24SPM, and I do think it helps my technique. I rarely do anything less than 20.

[hjs]

The lower the rating, the stronger the stroke becomes, this is very helpfull for OTW rowers. For ergers this doesn,t matter that much, do what feels good.

Maybe you could alter the rating during your rows. Say 3 min rate 24 3 min rat 22 etc. Or every combination you like.


Ps low rate rowing is harder for the back, so be carefull.

[parishd]

]Ps low rate rowing is harder for the back, so be carefull.

Boy you have that right! After 3 days at 23 SPM, my back is pretty fatigued at the end of the row. I seem to recover over the course of the day, but I can really feel it at the time.

I myself do a lot of strapless work, which limits me to 24SPM, and I do think it helps my technique. I rarely do anything less than 20.

I tried strapless for a few days a month or so ago and it didn't really help me slow down my stroke. In fact, I didn't have any trouble staying on the erg, even up to 26-27 SPM, but it left the backs of my legs and thighs very sore. It seems that when strapless, you have to haul yourself up the rail by your heels only as opposed to spreading the force across both the top of the foot and your heel. In any case, based on how it's affecting my back, I don't think I'll be lowering my stroke rate much further.

Thanks for the feedback.

Daniel

[mike-mike1213]

just try rowing at different rates, bring it up like 2 spm every workout till you find what gives you the best time. if you have been rowing at a 28 for a few years it could be that you have adapted to that rate.

[michaelb]

a few days a month or so ago and it didn't really help me slow down my stroke. In fact, I didn't have any trouble staying on the erg, even up to 26-27 SPM, but it left the backs of my legs and thighs very sore. It seems that when strapless, you have to haul yourself up the rail by your heels only as opposed to spreading the force across both the top of the foot and your heel.

From the sound of it, I think you were cheating when rowing strapless. The point of rowing strapless is not to drag yourself back up by your heels (although some of us may do that a bit). My understanding is that the theory of rowing strapless is to force you to be balance over the entire stroke. So when rowing strapless, you recover (move back up the slide) by being quick with the hands and rotating the body at the hip. Done properly, all of the force you generated by the stroke goes into the handle so none is lost in the straps) and the recovery is acheived with this balance and body rotation, not by digging in your heels (there you should be very little or no leg effort on the recovery).

Otherwise, I think you are on track and making good progress. Using "10 meters per stroke" as the guide, rowing SR=23 at 2:10, SR=24 at 2:05, and SR=25 at 2:00 is exactly on target.

[parishd]

From the sound of it, I think you were cheating when rowing strapless. The point of rowing strapless is not to drag yourself back up by your heels (although some of us may do that a bit). My understanding is that the theory of rowing strapless is to force you to be balance over the entire stroke. So when rowing strapless, you recover (move back up the slide) by being quick with the hands and rotating the body at the hip. Done properly, all of the force you generated by the stroke goes into the handle so none is lost in the straps) and the recovery is acheived with this balance and body rotation, not by digging in your heels (there you should be very little or no leg effort on the recovery).

"Hauling" was overstating it a bit, but I don't really see how to move back up the rail without pulling myself by my heels and/or straps at least to some extent, even if I rotate my body at the hips. Maybe I'm not quite following your description of the recovery. I think I have the drive part down pretty well as I don't need the straps to stop my backward momentum before moving to the recovery.

Otherwise, I think you are on track and making good progress. Using "10 meters per stroke" as the guide, rowing SR=23 at 2:10, SR=24 at 2:05, and SR=25 at 2:00 is exactly on target.

Thanks for the encouragement, I'm pretty close to these numbers now although at 2:00 I'm still hitting 26-27 SPM. I would like to get this down to 25 like you suggest.

Daniel

[bscastro]

Hey there,

I copied this over from another post of mine on another thread:

1. After finish of stroke, lead with your arms out first, then...
2. Pivot forward at the hips as your arms "draw" you forward...
3. As your body reaches vertical, bend your knees and your arms and body will draw you forward to the catch.

If you finish well with good arm pull after a good leg drive and body pivot, your feet will be planted on the footplate and the above mentioned recovery should get your back to the catch with no problems. Except for test pieces, I now row all of my workouts strapless. Advice from a friend and it has improved my form tremendously.

The times when I have had problems rowing strapless I was usually doing one of the following:
1. leaning back too far at finish
2. Using the arms too early in the stroke
3. Opening my back too early (which results usually in leaning back too far)
All of these usually result in me "falling away" from the foot stretchers and having to dig my heels in to stay on. So rowing strapless forces me to correct those.

Best regards,
Bryan

[onealjn]

Are there any good videos on the internet of someone rowing at ~16 spm strapless? I would like to see the recovery being described above. The descriptions are very helpful, but video is worth at least a dozen words.

Jason

[michaelb]

I spent 10 minutes looking for this, and now I see that his toes are strapped down. But I asked Navigation Hazard (crash b champion for 50s HWTs) for a video of him rowing at high power and SR under 18 last year. He posted a video on the UK forum. He may be willing to do one strapless if you ask as well. Coach PaulS is the obvious choice to demonstrate and explain strapless rowing, since he has been the leading advocate for it for many years.

My view is that once the SR drops too low, anything under SR20, the recovery has to become exaggerated and slow, and you lose the ratio and timing of the stroke. I think this video shows that, although the discussion got bogged on other points.

All of the technical discussions moved over to the UK forum last year, after this forum was repeatedly hacked, so there are numerous threads over there to read about this stuff.

the thread were I ask for the video:
http://www.concept2.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... ht=#196773

the video
http://media.putfile.com/145-pace-r17

[Storm Petrel]

The lower the rating, the stronger the stroke becomes, this is very helpfull for OTW rowers. For ergers this doesn,t matter that much, do what feels good.

Ps low rate rowing is harder for the back, so be carefull.

May I ask the reasoning here re: low SR being harder for the back?

I recently got my erg to rehab from a back/hip injury, and am primarily doing LSD to rehab and build a foundation. My back and hip haven't felt this good (since the injury) in a couple years. Granted I have a long way to go still, but, I find the low SR allows me to really focus on my form, timing and technique, and I believe helping me to keep that and not get sloppy when I do pull at the higher rates and get fatigued. I've added in some strapless work as well thanks to all the recomendations here on the forum.

[michaelb]

I will guess that means "high power low rate work" is hard on the back. So rowing really hard but keeping the SR really low. The reason for that is the flywheel will have slowed down quite a bit between strokes, so you have to start it back up each stroke, increasing that initial resistance (and strain on the back).

I would think rowing at an easy pace for you for long distances at moderate to low SRs (say SR 20-24) would probably be the least amount of stress on the back in terms of a rowing workout.

[Storm Petrel]

I will guess that means "high power low rate work" is hard on the back. So rowing really hard but keeping the SR really low. The reason for that is the flywheel will have slowed down quite a bit between strokes, so you have to start it back up each stroke, increasing that initial resistance (and strain on the back).

Thank you. Yes I see the problem if the flywheel slows too much.
The SR shouldn't be so slow it's counterproductive.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but, apply initial power with the legs and make sure that you don't lead with the butt to protect the back.

I would think rowing at an easy pace for you for long distances at moderate to low SRs (say SR 20-24) would probably be the least amount of stress on the back in terms of a rowing workout.

Yesterday 15+ today 12+K tomorrow 20K

[parishd]

Still trying to get my stroke rate down, today I managed 60 min at 2:13 with a SR of 21-22. My back is a bit fatigued, okay for now at least, but boy are my legs tired!

Daniel

[Nosmo]

parishd,
sounds like your making very good progress.
Are you still rowing with a DF of 176? If you want to drop the DF, which I would recommend, you can put a piece of duct tape over the top of the cage. Its and easy fix.