I am interested to get the input of some experienced marathon ergers on pacing and stroke ratings.
What pace should one start out at? I read one post by ranger that suggested 2k+15, which seems pretty fast.
What stroke rating do people row?
Marathon Challenge: Pacing & Stroke Rate Discussion
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Citroen
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Re: Marathon Challenge: Pacing & Stroke Rate Discussion
Ignore EVERYTHING that Rich Ranger Cureton ever wrote about rowing, he's entirely clueless.ccwenk wrote:I am interested to get the input of some experienced marathon ergers on pacing and stroke ratings.
What pace should one start out at? I read one post by ranger that suggested 2k+15, which seems pretty fast.
What stroke rating do people row?
Aim for an average 2:07.6 pace at 21-25spm. Row it steady, take a break at 12K, 22K, 32K (you can row a bit faster to make up for those breaks). Don't start out too fast - you can have a blast for the last 1000m.
Three hours after you start you'll be done.
Log it on http://www.concept2.com/sranking03/log.asp and C2 will send you a lovely glass mug to commemorate the event. (I have three mugs, I'm looking forward to getting my fourth after rowing this next Sunday).
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johnlvs2run
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For the marathon:
1) start out slowly;
2) get to your planned place gradually;
3) take your time;
4) be conservative;
5) use any stroke rating that you wish.
I started too fast in my first attempt and by 10k was done. The next day I started gradually just to see how far I could get. My first few strokes were in the mid 2:20's. The first 2.5km split was at 2:13.7 pace. Then I did a lot of splits around 2:07-2:08 in the middle and ended up at 2:07.1 and 2:58:46.2. I am convinced the primary reason this turned out so well was my very easy and gradual beginning.
My stroke rate averaged 29.5 spm. Next time I plan to average higher than this.
1) start out slowly;
2) get to your planned place gradually;
3) take your time;
4) be conservative;
5) use any stroke rating that you wish.
I started too fast in my first attempt and by 10k was done. The next day I started gradually just to see how far I could get. My first few strokes were in the mid 2:20's. The first 2.5km split was at 2:13.7 pace. Then I did a lot of splits around 2:07-2:08 in the middle and ended up at 2:07.1 and 2:58:46.2. I am convinced the primary reason this turned out so well was my very easy and gradual beginning.
My stroke rate averaged 29.5 spm. Next time I plan to average higher than this.
bikeerg 75 5'8" 155# - 18.5 - 51.9 - 568 - 1:52.7 - 8:03.8 - 20:13.1 - 14620 - 40:58.7 - 28855 - 1:23:48.0
rowerg 56-58 5'8.5" 143# - 1:39.6 - 3:35.6 - 7:24.0 - 18:57.4 - 22:49.9 - 7793 - 38:44.7 - 1:22:48.9 - 2:58:46.2
rowerg 56-58 5'8.5" 143# - 1:39.6 - 3:35.6 - 7:24.0 - 18:57.4 - 22:49.9 - 7793 - 38:44.7 - 1:22:48.9 - 2:58:46.2
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Snail Space
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Graph your distance vs pace on a semi-log scale. See the "Graph of Pace vs Distance" thread from the last couple of days.
http://www.c2forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=5973
It should be pretty linear. Then you can extrapolate what you can do for the marathon--but be careful extrapolating can be risky.
That said, the rest of the advice is critical: Start slowly. The stroke rating should be a bit slower then what you do for a half marathon, which should again be a bit slower then what you do for a 10K. You should just try to survive the marathon not push it. IF you start slowly and don't go too hard you'll be fine. Save yourself for the last 5 to 10K--like every thing else, do negative splits.
Also you will probably be better off eating something. If I do one, I'll have a cliff bar about 15-30 minutes before I start. I'll slowly starting eating another at about the second hour, and another starting a little before the third (it will take at least 30 minutes to eat each one.) Break them up to small pieces before the start. Others may prefer some sports drink or something like Gu.
As for stroke rating, My last 2K's were in the 34 range. 5K's I do at 28 or so if I am trying to go for a PB and 22-25 during a normal work out. Half marathon's I've done at 24-25 (I've done three all of which have been fairly hard). A marathon I would try at a 20-24, depending on how I feel and if I am trying to just do it or go fast.
I
http://www.c2forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=5973
It should be pretty linear. Then you can extrapolate what you can do for the marathon--but be careful extrapolating can be risky.
That said, the rest of the advice is critical: Start slowly. The stroke rating should be a bit slower then what you do for a half marathon, which should again be a bit slower then what you do for a 10K. You should just try to survive the marathon not push it. IF you start slowly and don't go too hard you'll be fine. Save yourself for the last 5 to 10K--like every thing else, do negative splits.
Also you will probably be better off eating something. If I do one, I'll have a cliff bar about 15-30 minutes before I start. I'll slowly starting eating another at about the second hour, and another starting a little before the third (it will take at least 30 minutes to eat each one.) Break them up to small pieces before the start. Others may prefer some sports drink or something like Gu.
As for stroke rating, My last 2K's were in the 34 range. 5K's I do at 28 or so if I am trying to go for a PB and 22-25 during a normal work out. Half marathon's I've done at 24-25 (I've done three all of which have been fairly hard). A marathon I would try at a 20-24, depending on how I feel and if I am trying to just do it or go fast.
I
Re: Marathon Challenge: Pacing & Stroke Rate Discussion
I logged the only marathon that I ever did (last season), but I ain't never got no mug. Just so there is no misinterpretation of the multiple negatives, I'll put it another way: I didn't get a mug.Citroen wrote: Log it on http://www.concept2.com/sranking03/log.asp and C2 will send you a lovely glass mug to commemorate the event. (I have three mugs, I'm looking forward to getting my fourth after rowing this next Sunday).
I wasn't really interested in getting one, so I hadn't paid much attention to it. I was pleased, however, to receive a certificate stating that I had set a WR for my age/weight classification for the marathon
On checking the records for 2002 to 2007, I see that this is a rather hollow honor. There is only one other person over 80 listed in the records as having completed a marathon (or should I say being crazy enough to have completed a marathon). He did it at age 83 and I did mine at age 81. He holds the HWT record for men over 80.
Bob S.
Bob, you need to email C2 to get your mug. Go on, you deserve it, and I don't think they care when you did it, but you have to let them know you did it.
http://www.concept2.com/us/motivation/a ... rathon.asp
As for pacing a first marathon, I would pick a pace and stroke rate that is most comfortable for you. None of us can tell you that pace. I think it is important to just finish the first one, and worry about your time and racing it, if you are crazy enough to do that, on subsequent attempts. I agree that you can go out a bit slow, and pick it up slowly as you row along if you want. If you row a comfortable pace, at least for me the difficulty of the marathon is not the rowing or even really getting tired, it was the aches and pains of sitting and rowing that long (butt pain and hand pain are the major ones for me).
I think you also need to decide if you are going to stop, even briefly, to drink, eat, change positions, etc. That is perfectly legal, and you have 3-4 minutes (I can't remember now) before the monitor resets, so make sure that doesn't happen. A few short breaks can make a big difference in getting through the first row. Good luck and let us know how it goes.
http://www.concept2.com/us/motivation/a ... rathon.asp
As for pacing a first marathon, I would pick a pace and stroke rate that is most comfortable for you. None of us can tell you that pace. I think it is important to just finish the first one, and worry about your time and racing it, if you are crazy enough to do that, on subsequent attempts. I agree that you can go out a bit slow, and pick it up slowly as you row along if you want. If you row a comfortable pace, at least for me the difficulty of the marathon is not the rowing or even really getting tired, it was the aches and pains of sitting and rowing that long (butt pain and hand pain are the major ones for me).
I think you also need to decide if you are going to stop, even briefly, to drink, eat, change positions, etc. That is perfectly legal, and you have 3-4 minutes (I can't remember now) before the monitor resets, so make sure that doesn't happen. A few short breaks can make a big difference in getting through the first row. Good luck and let us know how it goes.
M 51 5'9'' (1.75m), a once and future lightweight
Old PBs 500m-1:33.9 1K-3:18.6 2K-6:55.4 5K-18:17.6 10K-38:10.5 HM-1:24:00.1 FM-3:07.13
Old PBs 500m-1:33.9 1K-3:18.6 2K-6:55.4 5K-18:17.6 10K-38:10.5 HM-1:24:00.1 FM-3:07.13
What training have you done to prepare yourself?
At what pace do you do your longer (60+min) rows?
What is your goal--to finish or to go as fast as you can?
How you answer will determine how fast you go, how you handle breaks and, what you nutrition you take on.
I have done one slow marathon. Prepared by doing a number of longish (17-21k) rows and one 25k prep. Major butt and hamstring discomfort in my right leg (chronic problem), but otherwise not difficult. Drank a mix of oj/water/salt. Took a couple of short breaks. The greatest act of will was restarting after the last brief rest.
At what pace do you do your longer (60+min) rows?
What is your goal--to finish or to go as fast as you can?
How you answer will determine how fast you go, how you handle breaks and, what you nutrition you take on.
I have done one slow marathon. Prepared by doing a number of longish (17-21k) rows and one 25k prep. Major butt and hamstring discomfort in my right leg (chronic problem), but otherwise not difficult. Drank a mix of oj/water/salt. Took a couple of short breaks. The greatest act of will was restarting after the last brief rest.
last weekend the Dutch Championship marathon Rowing on the Concept2 took place and I completed a full marathon as a race. For me it was helpful to monitor the heartrate during racing. Your heartrate will tell you if you will be able to finish or not. If your heart rate is to high at the beginning, you know that you cannot sustain at the end. Be careful not to pass "The anaerobic treshold" too early. Lactic acid will build up then and after 30 km your legs don't want anymore. Keep your heartrate at a maximum of 85% of your maximum heartrate and this is already pretty high if you are not very well trained.
Don't start too quick. The first hour is always fantastic. The hard point lies between 28 and 35 km. At the beginning you feel: "I have much more" and than, after 28 km the man with the hammer will pass by!
I had as an extra problem that is was a public race on a very hot day. Exept one, all competitors were men. And men go of course quicker than a lightweigt veteran woman. On the PM3 you see the other competitors and you see that you will be last. It's than very dificult to go not too quick in the beginning.
But I finished and I was happy. Last finished but second on the world ranking (Woman lightweigt, 40-49, time 3.23.04) Personal record smashed! And I received a medal. No woman of my age are that crazy to do a indoor rowing marathon in the heat!
The advice to everybody: Stay steady, stay realistic, stay well hydrated and fed, not to quick at the beginning and use a heart rate monitor.
Ank
Don't start too quick. The first hour is always fantastic. The hard point lies between 28 and 35 km. At the beginning you feel: "I have much more" and than, after 28 km the man with the hammer will pass by!
I had as an extra problem that is was a public race on a very hot day. Exept one, all competitors were men. And men go of course quicker than a lightweigt veteran woman. On the PM3 you see the other competitors and you see that you will be last. It's than very dificult to go not too quick in the beginning.
But I finished and I was happy. Last finished but second on the world ranking (Woman lightweigt, 40-49, time 3.23.04) Personal record smashed! And I received a medal. No woman of my age are that crazy to do a indoor rowing marathon in the heat!
The advice to everybody: Stay steady, stay realistic, stay well hydrated and fed, not to quick at the beginning and use a heart rate monitor.
Ank
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johnlvs2run
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Ank,
Congratulations for your outstanding marathon and thank you for your helpful suggestions. Especially a hot day makes the marathon very difficult to complete in good time but you did it.
I have been thinking to use the heart rate monitor and might do that the next time. My concern is with it rubbing on my chest and back through the distance.
Congratulations for your outstanding marathon and thank you for your helpful suggestions. Especially a hot day makes the marathon very difficult to complete in good time but you did it.
I have been thinking to use the heart rate monitor and might do that the next time. My concern is with it rubbing on my chest and back through the distance.
bikeerg 75 5'8" 155# - 18.5 - 51.9 - 568 - 1:52.7 - 8:03.8 - 20:13.1 - 14620 - 40:58.7 - 28855 - 1:23:48.0
rowerg 56-58 5'8.5" 143# - 1:39.6 - 3:35.6 - 7:24.0 - 18:57.4 - 22:49.9 - 7793 - 38:44.7 - 1:22:48.9 - 2:58:46.2
rowerg 56-58 5'8.5" 143# - 1:39.6 - 3:35.6 - 7:24.0 - 18:57.4 - 22:49.9 - 7793 - 38:44.7 - 1:22:48.9 - 2:58:46.2
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Citroen
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Re: Marathon Challenge: Pacing & Stroke Rate Discussion
No, that's terrible. Send a stern email to DenaH [at] Concept2 [dot] com.Bob S. wrote:I logged the only marathon that I ever did (last season), but I ain't never got no mug. Just so there is no misinterpretation of the multiple negatives, I'll put it another way: I didn't get a mug.Citroen wrote: Log it on http://www.concept2.com/sranking03/log.asp and C2 will send you a lovely glass mug to commemorate the event. (I have three mugs, I'm looking forward to getting my fourth after rowing this next Sunday).
You need a mug.
If you have a lot of experience and are ready to really race the marathon, you should know how fast you can go and won't need a HR monitor.John Rupp wrote:Ank,
I have been thinking to use the heart rate monitor and might do that the next time. My concern is with it rubbing on my chest and back through the distance.
However if you are a bit unsure of what you can do the it may save you big time. If it is bothering you, it will cost you 20 seconds max to take it off. Not a big risk in wearing it.
That said I don't bother with mine. The PM tells me all I need to know. However I do have a lot of experience doing long hard rides on a bike and have a good idea of how to pace myself for long distances.
[quote]If you have a lot of experience and are ready to really race the marathon, you should know how fast you can go and won't need a HR monitor.
That's generally true but in this case the heat was the problem, It was extremely hot for the Netherlands that day and my heart rate was 10 beats higher than normal with the same pace. Also I have sometimes differences in the heart rate (probabely caused by more or less training loads) and that I want to know. That prevents me from becoming overtrained.
I found out that average environment temperature does a lot with my heart rate. I like cold circumstances. I have to be careful in heat.
Another good reason to wear a heart rate monitor is that you can train exactly. Not too much and not too less. I know that top-rowers in the Netherlands wear heart rate monitoring during training and testing. Of course you learn to know your body. But you can have differences now and then, even if you are well trained. Than it is good to see what is going on in your body.
The weekend I did my indoor-rowing marathon, the Rotterdam running marathon (one of the most important running events in the Netherlands) was beiing stopped by the organisation comittee because athletes fell down on the street from heat and heat exhaustion)
In the weeks before my marathon I did several half marathons and a 30 km test. They were very promising and I was hoping for a time below 3.20.00. (Half marathon was 1.37.04, 30 km was 2.20.00) The weather was just bad luck and my heart rate monitor prevented me from doing dangerous things.
That's generally true but in this case the heat was the problem, It was extremely hot for the Netherlands that day and my heart rate was 10 beats higher than normal with the same pace. Also I have sometimes differences in the heart rate (probabely caused by more or less training loads) and that I want to know. That prevents me from becoming overtrained.
I found out that average environment temperature does a lot with my heart rate. I like cold circumstances. I have to be careful in heat.
Another good reason to wear a heart rate monitor is that you can train exactly. Not too much and not too less. I know that top-rowers in the Netherlands wear heart rate monitoring during training and testing. Of course you learn to know your body. But you can have differences now and then, even if you are well trained. Than it is good to see what is going on in your body.
The weekend I did my indoor-rowing marathon, the Rotterdam running marathon (one of the most important running events in the Netherlands) was beiing stopped by the organisation comittee because athletes fell down on the street from heat and heat exhaustion)
In the weeks before my marathon I did several half marathons and a 30 km test. They were very promising and I was hoping for a time below 3.20.00. (Half marathon was 1.37.04, 30 km was 2.20.00) The weather was just bad luck and my heart rate monitor prevented me from doing dangerous things.