Lifting strength vs erg power

[Dreadnought]

Many of you lift weights to complement the rowing workouts. I am interested in hearing individual correlations of max lifting stengths to max power output on the erg.

For example I can currently dealift just slightly more than 300lbs and my max effort on the erg is 1:22/500m or about 635 watts. If I increase my deadlift by 33% (400lbs) should I expect my max watts to increase by the same percentage (about 850 watts)

Can any of you share your max weights in the following lifts

deadlift
squat
powerclean

as well as the max watts generated on the erg
I'm looking to see how much correlation there is.

[hjs]

Increase in strenght will not transfer 100% to ergpower. The reason is that ergpower is not just strenght but also speed.
So if you become stronger your ergpower will also improve but certainly not in the same amount.

[desfrutado]

If you want to effectively transition that power into erg strength try doing erg strength work, damper set at 10 and then do sets at low rate, say between 16 and 18, and do 10 to 12 reps just like lifting. That will proably hep convert your lifting strength to erg strength

[Dickie]

If you want to effectively transition that power into erg strength try doing erg strength work, damper set at 10 and then do sets at low rate, say between 16 and 18, and do 10 to 12 reps just like lifting. That will proably hep convert your lifting strength to erg strength

I spent many years as a powerlifter and I have seen no conversion of power to the erg. As hjs said, there is more to it than raw strength.

My best lifts
Squat (full) 425
Front Squat 325
Powerclean 225
Squat clean 265
deadlift 475
Leg Press (45 degree incline, knees to 90 degrees) 1200

best 500m 1:26.8
Low pull 1:19
best 2000m 6:46.4

The above lifts are single maximal efforts. Even a 500m piece on the erg is a minimum of 40 strokes (for me it is closer to 55). In a single lift the weight does not move until the force you apply exceeds the weight to be lifted. On the erg the handle starts to move with the first pound of force you apply. You have to be extremely quick to get to maximal force before you run out of chain.

With damper set at 10 and at low rates My maximum pull force as measured by Ergmonitor rarely exceeds 100kg this is no workout at all for me. I warmup the leg press with sets of 10 at 250kg.

If you want to be strong, stick with weights, forget the erg. If you want overall fitness or if you want to supplement your strength training with endurance work, there is nothing better than the erg.

Fred Dickie

[johnlvs2run]

deadlifted 5x 185 in 2003 after working up from 120 pounds

March 04, 2004
max split 1:25 a few times

March 08, 2004
max split 1:24 a few times
deadlift 70 pounds 63x in 3:00

March 14, 2004
max split 1:24 a few times

overhead press maybe 65 pounds
no squats with any weights for a long time
no powercleans for a long time but maybe 75 pounds

[almostflipped]

In college my max squat was 320 (I was a lightweight) and my low pull was 1:18. I stopped rowing after college due to injury and when I got back into it was completely detrained. After erging for a few months without any lifting and making a concerted effort to change my technique (plus lower the drag) my max pull was 1:14 (drag was around 120 in those days and I was still a lightweight). From what I've seen in my own rowing and in those that I've coached the correlation is reasonable to a point, then rapidly disappears.

I believe the dutch did a survey of strength among different categories of rowers and classified an Olympic level of strength to be squatting/deadlifting about 1.9x body weight and bench pulling 1.2 (first number is accurate, the second one may be 1.25). I do not have a link for this as I read it in traditional paper form, but the strength required is not that much when you think about it.

[vo2maximus]

I think that some lifts would have more of a correlation than others.. particularly the power clean. The erg tends to reward longer strokes (taller rowers) and I feel that cleans do the same thing, to a degree, since you have more time to get the weight up to speed.

I have never been particularly great in the weight room, though I did have some success with cleans. I could do 185 x 3 on cleans, which was about 10 lbs more than my bodyweight, yet the most I have ever physically squatted (not talking calculated maxes) was about 250-- which I recognize to be quite low. Nonetheless, I am able to put out max efforts on the erg in the 1:11-1:14 range and I attribute it to height and high stroke rating more than muscular strength.

[johnlvs2run]

Vo2maximus,

Would you consider high pulls to be a good exercise for the erg?

[vo2maximus]

Vo2maximus,

Would you consider high pulls to be a good exercise for the erg?

I don't necessarily think low pulls alone are a great exercise, but there is an interesting article in the recent rowing news on Peak Power-- specifically, it cites that if your target pace is more than 55% of your best low pull, you're going to have a rough time getting that target. So it suggests ways to train peak power that are a little bit off the beaten path from what most rowers do for erg workouts. It also cites a reported 8-12 second drop in 2k times for masters and collegiate rowers who incorporated the workouts it suggests into their training. Definitely check it out if you can.

[vo2maximus]

apologies, I think I misread your post-- if you were referring to high pulls meaning upright rows. but, nonetheless, check out the article i mentioned.

if you are referring to upright rows, I do think that they are somewhat beneficial, but not as much as seated rows, dumbell rows, or bent over rows.

[FB1]

My personal belief is that working with resistance levels 20-25% of your 1 RM for squats, deads and cleans. And improving the total number of lifts done within a 5-8 min time period will more benefit improving your 500m-2000m erg times than focusing on improving 1 RM.

FB

[johnlvs2run]

if you are referring to upright rows, I do think that they are somewhat beneficial, but not as much as seated rows, dumbell rows, or bent over rows.

I don't get rowing news. Is the article somewhere online?

Yes, I mean upright rows, like these:

http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/Del ... htRow.html

http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/Del ... htRow.html

How would you compare the benefits of these, as to the muscles they target, with the other exercises you have mentioned? Thanks much for your comments.

[hjs]

Vo2maximus,

Would you consider high pulls to be a good exercise for the erg?

I think "high pulls" mean Olympic lifts. You have to do this quick and this is what will help you rowing.

The ones you are showing won't help much.

[DougRow]

I think the best, short 'n simple guideline is on page 89 of "Rowing Faster". Roughly, for high level performance in men, for the big three moves; squat, deadlift, benchpull, aim for something like 1.5x your weight for the first two, and 1x your weight for the third.

I generally agree that weights don't translate to rowing, and that the best exercise for rowing, is rowing. But if you're far off the mark in one of these areas, it could reveal a weakness. I like having (or wish I had) the above benchmarks, for the same reason I like to keep up some level of general circuit training. It's "infrastructure". A confidence that bones, ligaments, tendons, fast twitch, core, and other systems, which do not directly contribute to the erg score, are still there, and supporting what does. If I can't do a decent deadlift, my chances seem to go up for getting a sore lower back, or losing proper posture and technique in a hard drive. All somewhat indirect, but important.

- Doug

[Jack S.]

Clean grip high pulls http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/Oly ... hPull.html


high pulls from the hang http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/Oly ... gPull.html