Concept2 Forum

I LOVE the new pm3 monitor on the concept2D model.

I have only rowed on it in for a few times but it is SO smooth, and the feedback is amazing.

I am an adative rower (Trunk and arms only) and am training currently for the C.I.R.C. on Feb. 4th.
My last Rowing Canada 1 km test was a time of
4:51.7
I am hoping to cut 10 sec's off that next weekend at the Nationals.


here is a breakdown of 4 different sessions.
My goal was to try remain stable in spm, to do negative splits and therefore increase watts throughout.

here is the results of one of my 80 min. steady state rows.

time: 10min ave.split 3:07.8 spm 25 w53 distance: 1597m
time: 20 min. split 3:09.7 spm 29 w51 1581m
time: 30 min. split 3:17.3 spm28 w 46 dist. 1520m (this was bad)
time: 40 min. split 3:08.7 spm31 w 52 1589m
time: 50 min. split 3:09.0 spm 32 w 52 1587m
time: 60 min. split 3:04.3 spm 34 w56 1527m
time: 70 min. split 3:00.2 spm 32 w60 1664m
time: 80 min. split 2:45.8 spm32 w70 1809m



Soon I learned that I do better in a short distance if i use slower spm's and therefore seem to get hihger watts of power.
There was one variable, I changed drag factor to 116 from 120.
perhaps significant.
will try the 116 df for a few more sessions and see if the pattern duplicates.

results:

1st 500m distance total comprised of a race pace only

time: 28.4 sec. split 2:22.0 spm27 w122
time: 28.1 sec split 2:20.5 spm26 w126
time: 28.3 sec. split 2:21.5 spm25 w124
time: 28.3 sec. split 2:21.5 spm25 w124
time: 28.3 sec. split 2:21.5 spm25 w124
______________-averages___________________
time:2:21.4 min. split 2:21.4 spm 25 w124 500m

I did better this time in the short distance -compared to last set where I went for the negative splits.

previous 1st) 500m section (tried the negative splits)
time: 28.8 sec. split 2:24.0 spm33 w117
time: 28.1 sec split 2:20.5 spm28 w126
time: 28.7 sec. split 2:23.5 spm27 w118
time: 28.5 sec. split 2:22.5 spm27 w121
time: 28.7 sec. split 2:23.5 spm27 w118
___________________averages____________________
time:2:22.7 split 2:22.8 spm27 w120 500m

2nd 500m -race pace no starts, or sprints, trying for a steady stroke rate and similar splits :

time: 28.7 sec. split 2:23.5 spm27 w117
time: 27.9 sec split 2:19.5 spm26 w126
time: 28.0 sec. split 2:20.0 spm26 w118
time: 28.2 sec. split 2:21.0 spm26 w121
time: 28.4 sec. split 2:22.0 spm25 w118
_________________averages_________________
time 2:21.1min. split 2:21.1 spm 26 w124 -500m


Infact, I learned that I do better with a slower stroke rate,then a higher one-see second set 20 min. session where I altered the stroke rate by a lot, and lost lots of power

1st) 20 min.

time: 4 min. split 2:54.9 spm22 w65 686m
time: 8 min. split 2:48.3 spm20 w73 713m
time: 12min. split 2:46.6 spm19 w76 720m
time: 16 min. split 2:45.2 spm19 w78 726m
time: 20min. split 2:45.9 spm 20 w77 723m
________________averages________________
time:20 min. split 2:48.0 spm20 w74 3570m


pevious 1st) set of 20 min. steady state:

time: 4min. split 2:52.6 spm 25 w68 695m
time: 8min. split 2:54.9 spm 27 w69 686m
time: 12min. split 2:51.9 spm 28 w78 698m
time: 16min. split 2:44.8 spm 28 w80 728m
time: 20min. split 2:40.o spm 28 w85 750m
_________________ average_________________
time 20 min. split 2:48.0 spm 20 w74 3570m

2nd) set of 20 min.-steady state(tried higher stroke rate then the first set)

time: 4 min. split 2:54.9 spm30 w63 676m
time: 8 min. split 2:48.3 spm33 w60 666m
time: 12min. split 2:46.6 spm32 w57 654m
time: 16 min. split 2:45.2 spm34 w58 661m
time: 20min. split 2:45.9 spm 34 w59 662m
_________________averages__________
time: 20 min. split 3.01.2 spm 32 59W 3320m


previous 2nd 20 min session:

time: 4 min. split 3:11.1 spm23 w50 627m
time: 8 min. split 3:02.3 spm23 w58 658m
time: 12min. split 2:56.2 spm24 w64 681m
time: 16 min. split 2:48.2 spm24 w73 712m
time: 29min. split 2:43.9 spm 23 w79 732m
_______________averages____________________
time: 20 min. split 3:00.7 spm 32 w59 3320m


almost the same results for both 2nd sets of 20 min.

what do you make of that?

I found it to be easier to concentrate on form, and perhaps easier generally to do the 500m section with lower stroke rates, pulling with more power. Yet, the second 20 min. sessions are almost the same. Although there is variation in the first twenty min. section...I wonder what that means?

that I have to do more intervals perhaps?


what do you think?

Asides from really working hard to stabilize the short distances to truely negative splits (and faster),do you think I'm on the right path to
better my time in the 1KM?

minna

--
"as a racer I'm not very gifted
but I am very persistent"

The regular rules of DF are not going to apply as much in your T/A situation. I'd suggest slowly raising the DF to as high as you can manage comfortably (relative comfort, that is). That get's you more meters/rev of the flywheel, therefore, more meters/drive. The recovery is naturally going to be quicker for you, so the additional flywheel slowing is not going to be so much a problem as it is with LTA rowers.

I coach an Arms Only adaptive rower, and it's all very interesting as to the differences that can be worked with to help performance.

All the Best.

thank you PaulS for helping and reading through my lengty post.

I did get told by Rowing Canada that a drag factor of 120 was the highest women were allowed to use for the tests (i asked why, because i previously used higher) she said due to risk of injury.



I still have about two days to play around with it, and then stick to one drag factor and go finish my last weeks training with a drag factor i will use at the races.

am I hindering myself (as in keeping myself too slow without knowing) Because I have been practicing aith spm's in the low 20's?

I think for the race my optimum stroke length for the race pace section seems to be in the 28-33 range.
after 33 i can;t recover enough and therefore seem to get less wats of power on each pull.

final question,
should i be focussing on harder curve on the meter that shows each poull what it looks like,
on the catch phrase or at the very end (where I pretend there is someone behind me and i am trying to jab them with my elbows.. the finish.

my curve starts off lower at the catch, climbs through the drive, and goes highest at the finish.

I try to go for a long recovery so i can pull higher watts (i have noticed it seems easier and i get better wats/and splits that way),
does it mean that i am still weak in my back/(which is used the most for me during the catch) because i cant pull more wats with higher stroke rates?

sorry if my thoughts are disjointd mornings are insane around here...
and i need to go in 10 min. so not much help in giving time to correct spelling and put sentences edited to be better.

thasnk you again PaulS I truly appreciate your comments.

i look for all positively put criticism, and advice..
no matter how it goes.

IF i can get a video camera some day to borrow i will ask someone to video me doing my rowing a little and put it up at utube so people can resally give a good critique of r my style.

thanks,
-minaa

I've seen the RC drag factors before, but did they know that you are an adaptive rower? We don't rig anything the same for AO, and would imagine that TA would be similar.

Now if you had use of your upper leg, to pivot the torso powerfully at the hips, then it's another ballgame alltogether (similar to what was done prior to sliding seats), but I'm assuming that's not the case. My AO rower has nothign from T6 down, so is about as AO as possible, and quite a bit less abled than what I have seen in the AO class, which I guess all classes are still undergoing definition review that could take a while.

A "climbing" profile is likely going to be just what you are going to get, so that's fine. Though being able to keep the rate up over the distance is going to be necessary. Since you don't have the sliding body mass to worry about, ratio can be closer to 1:1 without undue check in the progress of the boat/rower system, and the more strokes you can get by with will allow for less intense strokes. The difficult part will be finding the balance between rate and pace. You already indicate that you are aware of rating too high without getting a speed increase, so do a seires of short distance tests to narrow down the rate that works best. I'd think that it will be low 30's at a minimum and perhaps into the high 30's with some practice.

Hi John,

Yes, I spoke via email with the national adaptive team coordinator Allison (who told me about the 120 drag factor).
When I asked why, she indicated anything higher then that is risking injury.

I have discovered as you guessed,
that around 33-38 is a stroke rate where in I get most power.
Seems to be most efficient, not too fast to leave me feeling like I can't keep up, but fast enough that the flywheel seems easiest to keep its momentum.

I also noticed that if I pull the handle up towards my upper chest (rather then below the sternum) I can quicky drop the split by more then a tenth (i.e. go from a 2:35 split to 2:17 for a few strokes).
I don't think thats how one is supposed to row,
(never seen it at least in any of the erg. videos etc.)
but I wonder why it happens?

Today I crashed.
I sank my erg.
had to paddle to shore.

was doing the 20 min. warm up and made it to 5000m,
then decided to go for a 1km 'race pace' session thrown in there...
(mistake-crash and learn I guess )
and at 800m my butt fell off.
(well I wish SOME of my butt really did fall off)
I mean my butt fell OFF the erg. seat.

the chain went flying and on the way I was still holding on to the handle which knocked me in the head
(what my head was doing in front of the handle-I do NOT know)

perhaps I will be sporting a erg. handle bruise on my forehead at C.I.R.C.
(if I like it maybe I'll tatoo it permanently, to raise honour to the Erg. Gods for sparing my teeth!)



I think its the darn towels.
yes, its the towels fault.

you see, we don't have a stationary seat at the YMCA
and they do not want me to use wood blocks and clamps
(like at the Adaptive rowing clubs, and at C.I.R.C. they do)
because apparently I will 'ruin' the erg ....
I was told.


so to make the seat sit still,
i stuff the sliders with towels.

today at the 800m mark of my race pace 128 watts of power
was more then the towels could handle.
(and that erg. handle was more then I could handle)

as soon as the seat let go, the 'pull' of the erg handle as the chain was winding back towards itself pulled me head first towards the front of the erg, and I ended up sort of doing a 'summersault' over the erg. slide.

I wish someone would have had a movie camera,
I could be getting more 'hits' at utube then I did from the erg. today.


I don't have use of my upper legs, but I am pushing/tightening with my abs, and pulling with my back at the same time to initiate the swing.

Having never been coached by anyone who has worked with adaptive rowers propably is the biggest problem... I'm just figuring this stuff out as I go along.

I did start working on my road racing training with a fellow from the University here and turns out he has been rowing for a long time so when I fell in love with the erg. he had some idea on how things are 'supposed' to go...
BUT he tried to row without using his legs and he couldnt figure out 'how' i do it..
so he cannot really help me with that part of the technique
(as to what is the most efficient manner to row)
but he can help me with the part of the technique such as arms straighten on the recovery before allowing your upper body to start swinging forward to go for the catch.


I still have not figured out my optimum df
which is really bothering me.

I thought I had it down when I did my first test at df 120.
then I got a fairly good time (at least for those of us who put in our results... i came out on top place of all the female adaptive rowers in the TA division)
but now, i have been experimenting with lower df's
and although some times I find myself getting fairly decent splits
(the one 750m race pace was at df 116 and at a pace that would have given me a time 10 sec's better then my first test was -which was at dsf 120).

I think I am complicating my life more by playing around with too many variables.

I will focus on the rest of the week with 120 df, since that is where I did my first test and it turned out ok.

I just wish I was allowed to use clamps to put the seat still
i sort of fear the towel set up now.

I fear going 'full tilt' with the towels since its the second time they let go on me (the first time I hurt by lower back somehow... it was extremely sore for a couple of days and when it happened, it was so sore that i almost was unable to move, to turn at the waist side to side was almost impossible.)

this time i really ended up in a mess with this accident on the erg.

Perhaps I will just trust that I have put in enough hours,
enough meters,
and focus on hydration, rest, keeping the muscles moving but not exerting myself, and keep up the glucose storage and go into the race with the idea that despite it being the Canadian Nationals, its the 2nd of 4 tests for RC monitoring program and in that sense doesnt 'count' any more then any of the other 3 tests.

I will not go do my 6 x 150m 'sprint' sessions that my scheduled program -the one I pulled from Xeno from last yr's getting ready for CHRASH B's training program.

just incase the towels let go again and i end up hurt worse then a erg
handle imprinted on my forehead and a few bruises on the shoulders where I landed on the side of the slide.

-minna