Concept2 Forum

Hi all

Can someone give me some info on the "Force Curve" screen on the C2?

How can it be used to improve somone's indoor rowing?

Thanks

Rich

Stroke data:
http://www.triton.studver.uu.nl/rowperfect/

Examples:
http://www.triton.studver.uu.nl/rowperf ... kedata.gif

John

So the main goal is to create a high curve. I imagine you cant do too much to make the curve longer. Thanks for your response

Rich

maritato1 wrote:John

So the main goal is to create a high curve. I imagine you cant do too much to make the curve longer. Thanks for your response

Rich

Actually, no. Higher amplitude (e.g. a tall, 'spikey' curve) is not necessarily better. Total area under the curve is what directly affects pace. In general height plus breadth trumps height alone or breadth alone.

Having said this, there's much expert disagreement -- and even more lay confusion -- as to just what an ideal force curve ought to look like. Among the many complications: what's optimum on an ergometer is not necessarily what looks to generate the maximum boat speed OTW. Then there are inevitable compromises between what looks to be ideal on paper and what's actually possible/sustainable physiologically by a given rower....

Still, there is also a good deal of expert agreement. The C2 Manual gives good advice: strive for a smooth curve that looks like a gumdrop (IMO "left-leaning haystack" is even better) rather than a spike. If you can accelerate the flywheel with fast leg drive at a well-timed catch, get up to speed quickly and finish the stroke with smooth sequencing of your major muscle groups (legs/back/arms), your force curve should tend to look like that gumdrop or haystack. Or to put it another way, if your technique is sound your force curve will reflect it.

Things to avoid: big spikes; multiple peaks and valleys; 'wobble' up and down rather than a smooth curve; breadth without height.

Things to seek: smooth curve; gumdrop (or left-leaning haystack) shape; breadth + height achieved in a biomechanically sound and sustainable manner; replicability -- try to make every stroke at a given pace/rating resemble each other.

Thanks a lot NavHead. I get it

Rich

NavigationHazard wrote: Actually, no. Higher amplitude (e.g. a tall, 'spikey' curve) is not necessarily better. Total area under the curve is what directly affects pace. In general height plus breadth trumps height alone or breadth alone.

Jon, doesn't the shape of the curve depend on the rower's physical characteristics to some extent? As a 5'7.5" lightweight (rather than a 6'6" heavyweight powerhouse) I can't get anywhere near your force curves - mine tends to be much more like a sawtooth.

Citroen wrote:

NavigationHazard wrote: Actually, no. Higher amplitude (e.g. a tall, 'spikey' curve) is not necessarily better. Total area under the curve is what directly affects pace. In general height plus breadth trumps height alone or breadth alone.

Jon, doesn't the shape of the curve depend on the rower's physical characteristics to some extent? As a 5'7.5" lightweight (rather than a 6'6" heavyweight powerhouse) I can't get anywhere near your force curves - mine tends to be much more like a sawtooth.

Are you somehow built very differently than a "regular" human being?

The amplitude will vary, as will the length (though not by as much), however the "Time of the drive" (width on a PM3) can be made very similar for varying lengths (cm) by adjusting the Drag. Amplitude is simply a measure of how much force can be generated, i.e. Strength.

Citroen wrote: mine tends to be much more like a sawtooth.

Wouldn't this indicate a poor transition between legs, back and arms?

I was initially think sawteeth. ^^^. Really sad force "curve". Incredibly wobbly power.

Sawtooth (^) is not so bad, but weak catch, gaining power as hips straighten, then amazing fall off of arm and back power approaching the finish.

Work on more power at the change of handle direction (earlier in the drive), and make your elbows move more strongly from in front of you to behind your back. Think quick motion of hands from arms extended in front of to you, to your chest.

When they say "arms", it isn't so much. Biceps bring your hands to your shoulders. Elbows draw the upper arm from in front of you to a position behind you. Lats. My best bicep curl was 60 lbs. My best bench row was 180 lbs. Both were with 11 inch around biceps. Not that I recommend them, I just can't seem to improve them.

A sawtooth, i.e. as straight as possible going at least 1/2 way up the first edge, means the acceleration is even.

That graph reads 1998 at the bottom right. The dates are all in the future, or some previous year ?

And a 1.5 meter stroke length on handle travel ? Is that yours at your height of what 5'9" ? 1.5 meters is about 59 inches. I row about a max stroke length on the erg of 54 inches, and I am long armed and long legged.

The last graph was generated by Marjolein Rekers, a Dutch master's rower who is the daughter of Casper Rekers (the inventor of RowPerfect). I don't know where JR got it, but it originally comes from RowPefect and really does date from 1998. It's one of several sample/representative force curves they provide.

NavigationHazard wrote:The last graph was generated by Marjolein Rekers, a Dutch master's rower who is the daughter of Casper Rekers (the inventor of RowPerfect). I don't know where JR got it, but it originally comes from RowPefect and really does date from 1998. It's one of several sample/representative force curves they provide.

Yes, both of the graphs are from rowperfect sites.