Concept2 Forum

I don't row all that much, about 120k since July, but it wouldn't hurt to improve my technique now would it? I row mostly short pieces - 500m at 2:05 pace as a warmup for other workouts - or intervals. Rarely go longer than 10-15 minutes per rowing session.

http://crossfitsedona.com/Videos/RowingExample.mov
QuickTime movie, about 2 meg in size.

Rowing at about 200 watts, somewhere around 27spm maybe a tad less. Damper at 3 or so.

Comments? Suggestions?

Lincoln Brigham wrote:I don't row all that much, about 120k since July, but it wouldn't hurt to improve my technique now would it? I row mostly short pieces - 500m at 2:05 pace as a warmup for other workouts - or intervals. Rarely go longer than 10-15 minutes per rowing session.

http://crossfitsedona.com/Videos/RowingExample.mov
QuickTime movie, about 2 meg in size.

Rowing at about 200 watts, somewhere around 27spm maybe a tad less. Damper at 3 or so.

Comments? Suggestions?

1) Eliminate all the pausing of handle movement at the catch and release.
2) You can get a bit more reach with slightly more leg compression. (Vertical Shins)
3) Delay the body pivot on the drive longer. Use it as a transition from the leg drive to the arm draw.
4) The handle moves from slow to fast during the drive and should move from fast to slow during the recovery, a "mirror image". Watch your video in reverse to see how very different your motions are.

You look a lot like a person who did a pretty good job of figuring this out on your own and has done fairly well with the mechanical aspects, however the stroke lacks fluidity and rhythm.

Very helpful, thanks.

Regarding your comments:
1) Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. I will more often from now on.

2) Interesting point and I do see that now in the video. I usually stop coming forward when my heels start to come up. Any more than that seems to REALLY aggravate some knee tendonitis problems, much like letting my knees track well past my toes on a squat. Plus, that's about as far as I can manage without my heels coming up. Additional comments on that?

3) So I'm starting my back extension too early? I've been trying hard not to let my hips shoot out ahead of my shoulders, which is a bad habit I have in weightlifting. (Imagine the erg standing on it's head. Sort of.)
http://crossfitsedona.com/Videos/SnatchDemo.mov
Here my hips get ahead of my shoulders just a tad as the pull starts, not bad but not ideal for this kind of pulling. A different sport with a very different force curve.

4) On the force display I get a fairly symmetrical rounded curve on the drive. Should it be tilted more to the right? Or just steeper at the finish?

however the stroke lacks fluidity and rhythm.

Ya think?

well im sure you know of it, but the pausing at the catch and the finish has to go.

but on other points...
your compression is very conservative, and i think i know why. You do a good job of keeping good contact with the heel and the footstops. You can raise your heel off just a tad to get and inch or two more in the compression. Also you will want to work on more flexibility in the calves to give a greater range of motion in your stroke.

It's a long development(1 or 2 months) but if you stretch your calves well for a month, you will see INCHES of more compression without the heel leaving the footstops. These inches are terrific for power in your stroke, every bit of leg movement is good.

Now one other thing i saw was how your toes lift off the foot stops at the beginning of your recovery. This is a natural reaction for you to keep yourself from falling off the erg. The reason behind this is that your leanback is sufficent in length, however it's acheived by 'dumping' the weight of your upperbody on your butt. what should happen is that as you lean back, make sure that the abs are activated and that they bear the weigh of the opposite moving force.

Once you've mastered that(i cant do it yet after months of training) you won't have the same need to lift your toes off of the footstops.

Take some of it, take all of it, take none of it (as John Ruscitti would say).

Just some adive from a fellow rower.

If you need clearification let me know.

Cam.

Lincoln Brigham wrote:Very helpful, thanks.

Regarding your comments:
1) Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. I will more often from now on.

2) Interesting point and I do see that now in the video. I usually stop coming forward when my heels start to come up. Any more than that seems to REALLY aggravate some knee tendonitis problems, much like letting my knees track well past my toes on a squat. Plus, that's about as far as I can manage without my heels coming up. Additional comments on that?

csarbour addressed this well. Get the shins to vertical even if the heels lift a bit, work on ankle flexibility. If there is insufficient ankle flexibility to keep the heels down, no big deal, the heels will go down as soon as they are able.

Lincoln Brigham wrote: 3) So I'm starting my back extension too early? I've been trying hard not to let my hips shoot out ahead of my shoulders, which is a bad habit I have in weightlifting. (Imagine the erg standing on it's head. Sort of.)
http://crossfitsedona.com/Videos/SnatchDemo.mov
Here my hips get ahead of my shoulders just a tad as the pull starts, not bad but not ideal for this kind of pulling. A different sport with a very different force curve.

4) On the force display I get a fairly symmetrical rounded curve on the drive. Should it be tilted more to the right? Or just steeper at the finish?

Actually tilt it more to the left (left leaning haystack, or gumdrop if you like), the legs provide the majority of force production and then the body pivot and arm draw sustains as much as they can. If the profile tilted to the right you are demonstrating higher force production late in the stroke after the legs are done, and you don't really appear to have an uper body that is stronger than your legs. Can't think of anyone who does, in fact.

dont make it so mechanical man, just flow like the wind, catch my drift?

PaulS wrote: If there is insufficient ankle flexibility to keep the heels down, no big deal, the heels will go down as soon as they are able.

Paul:

I had been operating under the premise that it was OK for the heel to come up slightly. (No videos, but I'm guessing an inch and a half or so) Your quote above seems to confirm that. I have lately actually been pushing off at the beginning with the ball of my foot before getting flat. Is this bad? I do have problems with flexibility, but if lifting the heel is bad I can work on it in the longer and slower pieces.

Thanks,
Jeff

tennstrike wrote:

PaulS wrote: If there is insufficient ankle flexibility to keep the heels down, no big deal, the heels will go down as soon as they are able.

Paul:

I had been operating under the premise that it was OK for the heel to come up slightly. (No videos, but I'm guessing an inch and a half or so) Your quote above seems to confirm that. I have lately actually been pushing off at the beginning with the ball of my foot before getting flat. Is this bad? I do have problems with flexibility, but if lifting the heel is bad I can work on it in the longer and slower pieces.

Thanks,
Jeff

The most basic of thoughts is to drive off the entire foot. The footplate angle adjusts for this so it is not like a jump from the floor, unless you are jumping from a floor at a 45deg angle and still jumping vertically.

If you drive too much off your toes and keep the heel above the footplate for a longer time than necessary you end up using your calves as force dampeners somewhere in the drive and we don't really want to do that.

If the ankle simply won't allow the heel to remain down when the shins ar to vertical (my broken but healed ankles won't), they don't act as the same damper as they are basically rigid at that point, just allow them to get back to the footplate naturally. i.e. don't hold them off through the use of the calves.

Hope that's a bit more clear.

PaulS wrote:
Hope that's a bit more clear.

Thanks.

I actually did not know that the angle of the foot plate could be adjusted so I'll look at that. I would think, however, that you'd have to be careful when you reduced the angle to be more horizontal because when you are at mid stroke you won't have as much of the angle you'd want then to be pushing against.

I think the "push with the ball of my foot" comes up more now because I finally have enough flexibility in the rest of my body (after almost 1.8 M meters) to get my shins close to vertical. That's the main criticism both my sons had early on of my technique... that I wasn't getting close enough to the wheel just prior to the catch.

tennstrike wrote:

PaulS wrote:
Hope that's a bit more clear.

Thanks.

I actually did not know that the angle of the foot plate could be adjusted so I'll look at that. I would think, however, that you'd have to be careful when you reduced the angle to be more horizontal because when you are at mid stroke you won't have as much of the angle you'd want then to be pushing against.

I think the "push with the ball of my foot" comes up more now because I finally have enough flexibility in the rest of my body (after almost 1.8 M meters) to get my shins close to vertical. That's the main criticism both my sons had early on of my technique... that I wasn't getting close enough to the wheel just prior to the catch.

Oops, still not total clear. The C2 footplate does not "adjust" to differnt angles. This can be done in most boats, but fore the most part is left quite near 45deg.

What I meant was that the foot plate being at an angle of 45deg to the direction you are driving allows the heels to be in contact right through tou the finish. Unlike when jumping off the ground and eventually leaving off your toes. Notice your toes are pointed in both cases, but the heel remains against a surface on the Erg, but leaves the ground out of necessity when jumping.

and one more note, you need to move the erg away from the wall, not enough lay back anyway.

PaulS wrote:Oops, still not total clear. The C2 footplate does not "adjust" to differnt angles.

I didn't think I had missed an adjustment, but was waiting until I got home to look. Thanks for the clarification.

In summary, try and keep your feet flat on the footplate and if you can't prevent some rise of your heel then just get the foot flat as soon into your pull as you can.

Get those hands out quicker! If you do that then your feet won't come up as much either. More leg compression would be good as well. Try erging with a coach sometime it really helps me.