Better 2k split

[CharTehDuck]

I'm in my first year of competitive rowing. I'm 5'5 120 pounds and my first 2k being 1:53.6 and my second being 1:53.1. Would it be possible for me to hit a sub 1:50 or even sub 1:48 2k by the end of the summer?

[milansanremo]

I'm in my first year of competitive rowing. I'm 5'5 120 pounds and my first 2k being 1:53.6 and my second being 1:53.1. Would it be possible for me to hit a sub 1:50 or even sub 1:48 2k by the end of the summer?

For Sure!
I'm 63 years old and have been rowing 5 months. I've gone from 2:05 to what you're aiming for/ 1:50ish during that time frame. I'm an old man... not even close to the recovery ability that you have. The biggest training tip that I've found so far are workouts at UT1 or slightly faster along with r20 cap are VERY productive.
Good Luck
John

[iain]

While newbie gains are normally more than this, you have set good times so may not have faults to correct to help, while the usual gains from better pacing, rating and understanding your limits will probably still get you to 1:50 at least with smart and consistent training.

However we do need a bit more info. Notably your age, the time and average strokes per minute for each of the sub-divisions of your 2k, sporting background and sex. Also how much time you have available for erging and any other sports that you will continue.

[CharTehDuck]

While newbie gains are normally more than this, you have set good times so may not have faults to correct to help, while the usual gains from better pacing, rating and understanding your limits will probably still get you to 1:50 at least with smart and consistent training.

However we do need a bit more info. Notably your age, the time and average strokes per minute for each of the sub-divisions of your 2k, sporting background and sex. Also how much time you have available for erging and any other sports that you will continue.

Hi! Thanks a lot! I recently turned 15 in very late February and this is my first year of rowing as a U16. I'm a guy btw. I did cross country for a little bit in middle school I was very active in sports like soccer when I was younger and I play basketball with my dad. I have a lot of time available as I practice 6 times a week for 2 and a half hours each. I'll try to get my 2k sub-divisions from my coxswains as I did it during a practice. I also did my second 2k 2 weeks after my first one so that may explain the little gap between the times.

[iain]

I recently turned 15 in very late February and this is my first year of rowing as a U16. I'm a guy btw. I did cross country for a little bit in middle school I was very active in sports like soccer when I was younger and I play basketball with my dad. I have a lot of time available as I practice 6 times a week for 2 and a half hours each.

15 year olds vary a lot with some people having largely matured at 13 while others are still growing rapidly and have under developed muscles at 17. Excessive training while you are growing rapidly will decrease your performance long term, so while a great 2k this year may sound great, it could come at the cost of any chance of a rowing scholarship at college. So I would not advise anything like that level of training for someone of your size and age. We only get faster when we are resting and if our bodies are growing and maturing then this will detract from the recovery of muscles and so more resting is required to deliver long term gains.

My own son was asked to perform a counter-productive volume and intensity of training at your age and I had to step in with his coaches when injuries were not being respected and no time was allowed to recover. This lead to increased match performance while some of his team mates were constantly performing below par! You might even find that you can do a 1:50 already with improved pacing and a proper taper beforehand. HOw do your sessions breakdown and what proportion of each is done at moderately hard intensity or above?

[CharTehDuck]

I recently turned 15 in very late February and this is my first year of rowing as a U16. I'm a guy btw. I did cross country for a little bit in middle school I was very active in sports like soccer when I was younger and I play basketball with my dad. I have a lot of time available as I practice 6 times a week for 2 and a half hours each.

15 year olds vary a lot with some people having largely matured at 13 while others are still growing rapidly and have under developed muscles at 17. Excessive training while you are growing rapidly will decrease your performance long term, so while a great 2k this year may sound great, it could come at the cost of any chance of a rowing scholarship at college. So I would not advise anything like that level of training for someone of your size and age. We only get faster when we are resting and if our bodies are growing and maturing then this will detract from the recovery of muscles and so more resting is required to deliver long term gains.

My own son was asked to perform a counter-productive volume and intensity of training at your age and I had to step in with his coaches when injuries were not being respected and no time was allowed to recover. This lead to increased match performance while some of his team mates were constantly performing below par! You might even find that you can do a 1:50 already with improved pacing and a proper taper beforehand. HOw do your sessions breakdown and what proportion of each is done at moderately hard intensity or above?

My practices are a lot of sprint training and rate controlled steady state. We also do a lot of interval training. On Monday Wednesdays Fridays and Saturdays we do water training while Tuesday and Thursdays are land days where we either erg or do bodyweight exercises . I don’t think we’ve ever done weight training for the whole season. Our coaches also train our mental fortitude so if any of us make a mistake or do something dumb the whole team has to do “x amount of x” so that “there’s no light at the end of the tunnel”

[PleaseLockIn]

I recently turned 15 in very late February and this is my first year of rowing as a U16. I'm a guy btw. I did cross country for a little bit in middle school I was very active in sports like soccer when I was younger and I play basketball with my dad. I have a lot of time available as I practice 6 times a week for 2 and a half hours each.

15 year olds vary a lot with some people having largely matured at 13 while others are still growing rapidly and have under developed muscles at 17. Excessive training while you are growing rapidly will decrease your performance long term, so while a great 2k this year may sound great, it could come at the cost of any chance of a rowing scholarship at college. So I would not advise anything like that level of training for someone of your size and age. We only get faster when we are resting and if our bodies are growing and maturing then this will detract from the recovery of muscles and so more resting is required to deliver long term gains.

My own son was asked to perform a counter-productive volume and intensity of training at your age and I had to step in with his coaches when injuries were not being respected and no time was allowed to recover. This lead to increased match performance while some of his team mates were constantly performing below par! You might even find that you can do a 1:50 already with improved pacing and a proper taper beforehand. HOw do your sessions breakdown and what proportion of each is done at moderately hard intensity or above?

My practices are a lot of sprint training and rate controlled steady state. We also do a lot of interval training. On Monday Wednesdays Fridays and Saturdays we do water training while Tuesday and Thursdays are land days where we either erg or do bodyweight exercises . I don’t think we’ve ever done weight training for the whole season. Our coaches also train our mental fortitude so if any of us make a mistake or do something dumb the whole team has to do “x amount of x” so that “there’s no light at the end of the tunnel”

How much sprint training? There is a reason for 80/20 polarized training - the 80% sessions steady state for the aerobic gains, mitochondria, endurance, and 20% hard sessions to train top speed, etc.

If it is more like 50/50, the aerobic end may be faltering. What is the rate in the 2k? Max HR? Rest HR?

Personally I find 1 hard session, 2 weights sessions and 2 base sessions manageable even under off-season or under heavier academic loads. The weight sessions were integral to fixing my weaknesses (e.g hip hinge, not protracting the scapula by 1”, active and effective range of motion). Doing horizontal rows with scapula protracted at the end significantly improved my shoulder stability, allowing me to gain 1” of length without sacrificing force.

Would suggest to polarize the training, focus on aerobic base, more steady state time. Keep UT2 below lactate threshold 1, or around 70% HRR (tweak more or less, 3 RPE). Eventually you should be able to get sub 1:50 by the end of the summer. Perhaps you could develop a bigger ut2 aerobic base in the summer - that could set you up for peaking later on for college (if you want)

[p_b82]

I'll try to get my 2k sub-divisions from my coxswains as I did it during a practice. I also did my second 2k 2 weeks after my first one so that may explain the little gap between the times.

It implies that these 2k's were done OTW it might be a bit trickier to compare to your erg times due to other external factors altering things; but if it was, I'd probably want to get a benchmark done on the erg so you know exactly what your metrics are.

I'm no coach, so not going to make any suggestions to your coach's rowing regimen, but just keep an eye on your fatigue levels - pushing too hard towards higher goals can result in excessive fatigue build-up.

PS

Our coaches also train our mental fortitude so if any of us make a mistake or do something dumb the whole team has to do “x amount of x” so that “there’s no light at the end of the tunnel”

IMO this does no such thing - if anything it teaches people to hold something back a little because some-one is likely to make a mistake and then you all have to do some more anyway.

[CharTehDuck]

I'll try to get my 2k sub-divisions from my coxswains as I did it during a practice. I also did my second 2k 2 weeks after my first one so that may explain the little gap between the times.

It implies that these 2k's were done OTW it might be a bit trickier to compare to your erg times due to other external factors altering things; but if it was, I'd probably want to get a benchmark done on the erg so you know exactly what your metrics are.

I'm no coach, so not going to make any suggestions to your coach's rowing regimen, but just keep an eye on your fatigue levels - pushing too hard towards higher goals can result in excessive fatigue build-up.

PS

Our coaches also train our mental fortitude so if any of us make a mistake or do something dumb the whole team has to do “x amount of x” so that “there’s no light at the end of the tunnel”

IMO this does no such thing - if anything it teaches people to hold something back a little because some-one is likely to make a mistake and then you all have to do some more anyway.

Sorry, I mean I did the 2k on the erg but it was one of the ergs at practice and I don't know which one. The coxswains keep a spreadsheet of all the rowers so I was trying to get my info on it. If I remember correctly I think my average rate was either 34 or 35. Could someone also explain the terms used like UT1 and other things. I also wasn't able to track my heart rate at the time but I've started wearing a watch but I'm still not too sure how accurate it is.

[MPx]

At only 2 weeks apart, you're not really allowing much time for adaptations to take place to improve your 2k so gains are more likely due to improved technique or race plan. But any improvement is great so keep hold of that! Testing at at least 6 week intervals would be more enlightening. A 2k TT at rate 34 or 35 sounds about right. Training pieces would often be done at a much lower rate (20 to 24). Your muscles use various fuel sources and operate in different ways that ALL need training. The hardest to get right is the aerobic training. It takes the longest to improve (months/years), it takes a lot of seat time, it needs a careful individual approach that suits you or it risks just becoming so boring you don't do it, and it feels slow. The sprint intervals near max, the long intervals at transition, and the TTs are all physically harder, but for most, motivationally easier because it feels like you're working hard and the feedback is constant improvement. But with just them you'll quickly plateau and struggle for long term improvement.

So UT1, UT2, UT3 (Utility 1, 2, 3) are terms used for HR zones where you will be training Aerobically. There's some science involved, but the more you get into it the more you realise its guesswork based on approximations so don't take anyone's view of the exact numbers as Gospel. To train within HR Zones its first fundamental to know what your personal MaxHR and RestingHR are. MaxHR is painful to find out - none of the oft touted formulae are any use as they will be wrong for more people than they are right for. To see MHR some prescribe a step test based on increasing pace over a series of 4 minute blocks to failure. Some of us find an acceptable approximation to be a competitive 5 or 6 or 10k TT where we manage to sprint for the last minute or so. MHR is whatever it is for you - no amount of training is likely to change it - it will slowly lower as you age. Resting HR is easier, just look at your watch when you wake up in the morning. RHR will get lower the fitter you get. Most accept we train aerobically when our HR goes up to 70% of max. Theoretically UT1 goes up to 80% and there's more than one way to calculate the % which can get even higher numbers. But as I said its all a bit of guesswork and approximation anyway so don't overthink it too much. If you believe in or just want to try the 80/20 model then the 80% is aerobic training and needs to be done with a cap somewhere in the 70-80% MHR area and according to some is just as beneficial at 65%.

But you should note that this is based on elite athlete training and they spend hugely more time doing it and need to be very careful about recovery. Also your watch probably wont be reliable on the erg - if you're serious about monitoring HR on the erg, get a chest strap. HTH

[CharTehDuck]

At only 2 weeks apart, you're not really allowing much time for adaptations to take place to improve your 2k so gains are more likely due to improved technique or race plan. But any improvement is great so keep hold of that! Testing at at least 6 week intervals would be more enlightening. A 2k TT at rate 34 or 35 sounds about right. Training pieces would often be done at a much lower rate (20 to 24). Your muscles use various fuel sources and operate in different ways that ALL need training. The hardest to get right is the aerobic training. It takes the longest to improve (months/years), it takes a lot of seat time, it needs a careful individual approach that suits you or it risks just becoming so boring you don't do it, and it feels slow. The sprint intervals near max, the long intervals at transition, and the TTs are all physically harder, but for most, motivationally easier because it feels like you're working hard and the feedback is constant improvement. But with just them you'll quickly plateau and struggle for long term improvement.

So UT1, UT2, UT3 (Utility 1, 2, 3) are terms used for HR zones where you will be training Aerobically. There's some science involved, but the more you get into it the more you realise its guesswork based on approximations so don't take anyone's view of the exact numbers as Gospel. To train within HR Zones its first fundamental to know what your personal MaxHR and RestingHR are. MaxHR is painful to find out - none of the oft touted formulae are any use as they will be wrong for more people than they are right for. To see MHR some prescribe a step test based on increasing pace over a series of 4 minute blocks to failure. Some of us find an acceptable approximation to be a competitive 5 or 6 or 10k TT where we manage to sprint for the last minute or so. MHR is whatever it is for you - no amount of training is likely to change it - it will slowly lower as you age. Resting HR is easier, just look at your watch when you wake up in the morning. RHR will get lower the fitter you get. Most accept we train aerobically when our HR goes up to 70% of max. Theoretically UT1 goes up to 80% and there's more than one way to calculate the % which can get even higher numbers. But as I said its all a bit of guesswork and approximation anyway so don't overthink it too much. If you believe in or just want to try the 80/20 model then the 80% is aerobic training and needs to be done with a cap somewhere in the 70-80% MHR area and according to some is just as beneficial at 65%.

But you should note that this is based on elite athlete training and they spend hugely more time doing it and need to be very careful about recovery. Also your watch probably wont be reliable on the erg - if you're serious about monitoring HR on the erg, get a chest strap. HTH

My Coach just told us that we’re going to have a 2k tomorrow. My boat didn’t make it to nationals but we’re doing a roll down 8 so there are 4 spots available to go to youth nationals. Could you provide a race plan for my 2k because I don’t think I ever paced myself right. From what I’ve seen online you’re supposed to start above goal split and slowly go down. Is that true? Also need tips on how to prepare the day before a 2k(what to eat, how to train/ how hard to train)

[reuben]

My Coach just told us that we’re going to have a 2k tomorrow. My boat didn’t make it to nationals but we’re doing a roll down 8 so there are 4 spots available to go to youth nationals. Could you provide a race plan for my 2k because I don’t think I ever paced myself right. From what I’ve seen online you’re supposed to start above goal split and slowly go down. Is that true? Also need tips on how to prepare the day before a 2k(what to eat, how to train/ how hard to train)

This is just my personal opinion, but these sound like things your coach should be able to tell you.

[iain]

Unfortunately there are no right answers to your questions. The 2 most common approaches are either to go out ~1S/500M quicker than target, slow from 500 - 1500 to target +1 and then speed up to target or quicker with 500 to go and everything you have got for the final 2-300, or try and row at target throughout, increasing rating as required and then give it all you have for the final part. One well respected coach believes that the reverse of the first is better, advocating 800M at 1S slower than target while your system gears up to maximum, target for 600M, a further second quicker with 600 to go and then 2+ seconds inside target for the final 200M. All require a good idea of what you are capable of. The first is good for those that get comfort from being head of schedule and capitalises on how easy the first part seems while allowing your system to stabilise when it starts to get hard. The second is the most efficient, but it is hard to stick to target initially and very hard to hold the pace as it catches up to you. The third should feel slightly easier as you don't carry the same amount of anaerobic metabolites, but kicking 800M in at what will feel an uncomfortably quick pace already requires great willpower.

As to the day before, you will need to be well rested. Some people find a short row helps, so perhaps do a warm up and maybe 500M at rest pace, but don't over do it and end slowly. Warm up more than seems reasonable for the real thing, you should be sweating freely 5 min before the start to ensure that your system reaches maximum as quickly as possible. Good luck

[MPx]

Could you provide a race plan for my 2k because I don’t think I ever paced myself right. From what I’ve seen online you’re supposed to start above goal split and slowly go down. Is that true? Also need tips on how to prepare the day before a 2k(what to eat, how to train/ how hard to train)

First we need to understand: Is it a race? Or is it a time trial? Different factors can affect a race and I don't race so can't help. For a TT, physiologically you are likely to be able to set the fastest TIME by doing even splits throughout so level 1:50s for a 7:20 result which was your target I believe? You have to ignore whatever anyone else is doing and you can easily be scuppered by your brain rather than your body. For the first 500 you'll want to go faster - but you have to fight that and hold back. Next 500 starts to get very tough and either side of half way you will be fighting just to keep going. The last 500 starts to look like light at the end of the tunnel and its often surprising how fast you can actually go over the last 200. So given the way the mental side works, I usually adopt the first of the plans that Iain set out. 1s under (1:49?) for 500 - but that is usually a much quicker start over 50-60m and then calm down and look for 1:49/50s. It then starts to feel a bit tougher - let the pace drop a couple of seconds (to +1 or 2, 1:51/2) but try to stay as consistent as possible. There will be some relief at 500 to go but don't accelerate too early just start to press back to 1:50 before the last 200 where you should go for broke - its maybe 25 strokes so you can count yourself down. Hope I'm not too late with this, best of luck with it.

[iain]

but don't accelerate too early just start to press back to 1:50 before the last 200 where you should go for broke - its maybe 25 strokes so you can count yourself down. Hope I'm not too late with this, best of luck with it.

Maybe I don't go deep enough into the pain cave, but I find that I can manage >200M. Based on the above, if you were rowing at 1:52 with 500 to go, the perfect time to speed up is that which means that despite throwing everything at it you slow to 1:52 on the line (as if you were going faster, you would have been better off going earlier as the extra distance will be at a faster average). That said, I do something similar, 25 hard strokes from 500M out. Usually starts below target but is fading in last 5 strokes, but still around target. Then 15 faster strokes, pace a bit quicker than start of the 25. Try and keep nearly full stokes. That takes me to about 150M to go. I then go into an all out sprint, shortening the strokes as required to get the rate up. This gets me inside the last 100. I then pull about 12 more strokes, increasingly ineffective as legs gone and largely back and arms, pace slows but is almost always significantly below target as I cross the line.