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Beginner Pete Plan review and prep towards it

Posted: November 14th, 2024, 12:14 pm
by PleaseLockIn
Started rowing 2 months ago but inconsistently until Nov 3, when I tried a 2k with decent effort and barely made it under 2:10 splits. I then worked on the BPP, reduced my stroke rate, and it seems my progress is going surprisingly well. I feel like I could've spent less time preparing if I was more disciplined.

I simply followed various videos to get the technique right and rowed strapless to further refine my technique. Then I tried 500m rows, slowly increasing the distance, then 1000m, which I managed in 4:09 with gas left in the tank. I slowly improved it, had sprints, and tried 2000 m. The next day I jumped right into a 5k.

I was never a great athlete - my athletic background is mediocre. Intermural badminton, club-level runner (my best 3k run was 14:50), did a few sports but never managed to compete well in anything more than local club-level or in-school events. Not regional/national/international. My lifts were mediocre - 13 dips, 1RM ~100kg deadlift, ~90kg squat, ~50kg bench, ~40kg OHP.

People in these forums would advise to not start the Beginner Pete Plan until you can comfortably row 5000m steady state. This may seem "arrogant", but up to now I managed to get away with this. I know i can't just get away with things, so I am following the BPP almost to the letter.

The user CeeGee in (viewtopic.php?t=193389) has written "Pre-'Beginner Pete Plan'" to bridge the supposed gap between the Beginner British Rowing program and the BPP.

I will write my own plan, either called "Couch to BPP" or "Bridging to BPP". Stay tuned for my updates, and my review on the Beginner Pete Plan!

Re: Beginner Pete Plan review and prep towards it

Posted: November 14th, 2024, 12:23 pm
by Rowan McSheen
Before you do, take a look at these resources.

This is a few workouts to build up from 5 to 20 minutes:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... rRld-hcIPd

And the Zero to Hero plan:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... 19bGqqf3IL

The latter playlist is on another make of rower but the terminology is the same and the workouts are compatible.

Re: Beginner Pete Plan review and prep towards it

Posted: November 14th, 2024, 7:09 pm
by Nomark
I'm with you. I started the BPP this week and have done 4 out of 5 workouts already and feel great. The way it's designed I think most people should be able to cope with it as long as you have decent technique and read the instructions properly. Most of the sessions are supposed to be about refining your technique and pulling at a semi-relaxed pace. I couldn't row a 5k flat out every other day and then increase it up to 10k in a couple of months, but I honestly feel it won't be too bad at the slower pace prescribed and the gently increasing distances.

Caveat being I started this week so it might all come back to bite me in in a few weeks, so watch this space.

Re: Beginner Pete Plan review and prep towards it

Posted: November 15th, 2024, 12:31 am
by PleaseLockIn
Nomark wrote:
November 14th, 2024, 7:09 pm
I'm with you. I started the BPP this week and have done 4 out of 5 workouts already and feel great. The way it's designed I think most people should be able to cope with it as long as you have decent technique and read the instructions properly. Most of the sessions are supposed to be about refining your technique and pulling at a semi-relaxed pace. I couldn't row a 5k flat out every other day and then increase it up to 10k in a couple of months, but I honestly feel it won't be too bad at the slower pace prescribed and the gently increasing distances.

Caveat being I started this week so it might all come back to bite me in in a few weeks, so watch this space.
I tend to agree with you as the BPP is not an intense plan by any stretch of the imagination. People just need to have decent technique, passable fitness, passable strength, and be able to follow the instructions. You do notneed over 20 weeks to prepare for the Beginner Pete Plan unlike what CeeGee's "plan" will take you.

Even the Zero to Hero Plan would take 12 weeks if it is done 3x a week. While I do see there is a large gap between 2k and 5k, I don't believe you need a long time to build to it, even as a beginner.

Couch to BPP/Bridging to BPP (whoever votes for the name would get it):
Prequisites - discipline to complete the plan; know the technique. Able to handle 3x a week exercise.

Week 1-2 aim: Get used to rowing, steady-state. 2x a week rowing, 1x a week cross-training

Day 1: 1000m r20, conversational pace (steady state). Warm up by 250 m strapless rowing to fix technique.
Day 2: Aim for day 1 pace, but focus on technique and efficiency
Day 3: 15 minute weight session—focus on bench, overhead press at higher reps to train endurance

Day 1: 1250m r20, same pace as Week 1
Day 2: 500m x 3, 2 minute rest, r24 at a pace where you can speak a phrase (Say "the quick brown fox" to check)
Day 3: 15-minute weight session followed by 7.5-minute cross-training cardio

Week 3-4 aim: Introducing intense intervals and increasing the distance. 3x a week rowing, optional cross-training/more rowing

Week 5-6 aim: Steady state up to 2000m and increasing anaerobic endurance. Optimising technique.

Week 7-8 aim: Work to 2500m time trial for the aerobic base to start BPP. Also, enough anaerobic endurance for BPP intervals.

They can start the BPP week 1 day 1 at a split of 2.5k-9 to 2.5k-11. In my case, I did 2k with strong effort (UT1-AT) at 8:39.x (2:09.x split) and then a 5k at 23:02.x (2:18.x) at UT1.

I still need to study and I have classes in the afternoon, so it depends on my mood if I want to do Day 4 of the BPP.

It is suitable for complete beginners, even with little fitness - simply adjust the pace.

Re: Beginner Pete Plan review and prep towards it

Posted: November 15th, 2024, 6:24 am
by p_b82
the main reason that people say do not start the BPP until you can do 20-30mins steady state is not so much about the physical endurance; it is more because you need to have good technique on longer rows and that's the sort of distances that will highlight any flaws.

IMO it's also because the BPP is a plan that expects continuous improvement and the hard sessions to be hard (it is a 2k focused plan) - again these are things that will expose any technique flaws.

Don't forget the BPP was designed as a way to ease into the full Pete Plan - which has even higher intensities & even more focus on 2k training.

I appreciate that you've put some things down to share - but if this is aimed at other novices, then I think you have got to be more specific with your guidance.

Things like "rowing strapless to fix your technique" means nothing if you don't explain what purpose that has, and what you need to focus on.

You'd also need to explain why the higher rate for your wk2d2 500m intervals - what pace improvements expected etc; what does "Optimising technique" mean etc.

You say do a 2500m TT - TT's are normally done flat out, otherwise they're just training sessions at lower intensity / low pace benchmarks & there's a *huge* difference with UT1/AT vs max effort (over 2k or 2.5k).

As it stands the info you've put down would mean almost nothing to me when I started out - which wasn't that long ago & as such I think there are "better" resources already out there (sorry for being critical, but just saying it how I see it....)

Re: Beginner Pete Plan review and prep towards it

Posted: November 15th, 2024, 9:37 am
by PleaseLockIn
p_b82 wrote:
November 15th, 2024, 6:24 am
the main reason that people say do not start the BPP until you can do 20-30mins steady state is not so much about the physical endurance; it is more because you need to have good technique on longer rows and that's the sort of distances that will highlight any flaws.

IMO it's also because the BPP is a plan that expects continuous improvement and the hard sessions to be hard (it is a 2k focused plan) - again these are things that will expose any technique flaws.

Don't forget the BPP was designed as a way to ease into the full Pete Plan - which has even higher intensities & even more focus on 2k training.

I appreciate that you've put some things down to share - but if this is aimed at other novices, then I think you have got to be more specific with your guidance.

Things like "rowing strapless to fix your technique" means nothing if you don't explain what purpose that has, and what you need to focus on.

You'd also need to explain why the higher rate for your wk2d2 500m intervals - what pace improvements expected etc; what does "Optimising technique" mean etc.

You say do a 2500m TT - TT's are normally done flat out, otherwise they're just training sessions at lower intensity / low pace benchmarks & there's a *huge* difference with UT1/AT vs max effort (over 2k or 2.5k).

As it stands the info you've put down would mean almost nothing to me when I started out - which wasn't that long ago & as such I think there are "better" resources already out there (sorry for being critical, but just saying it how I see it....)
My first part was merely a draft - but yes I will be more specific with my advice. I will edit the plan to take note of this.
The 2500m TT is at the endof the 8th week to check the progress and see where to start the BPP.

Week 1 Day 1 (1.1)
Warm up - 250m strapless rowing at r20 (without the strap, you can't use your hamstrings to pull yourself to the starting position - you need to "glide" using the pulley back, using the core to stabilise yourself at the finish and hold it through the recovery. This teaches you to not lean too far back, just leaning back to 1 o clock or 30 degrees from vertical. Strapless rowing teaches you to keep connected to foot stretches as you have to feel the natural momentum of the stroke and the timing so you don't fly off the back of the seat. This is especially good for if you want to row in a boat in real life. You can transfer the power properly through the feet into the footplates, stay connected, yeah you get it)

Exercise - 1000m r20 at conversational pace to get used to the technique (legs hips arms, core stability etc.). Note the time.

Week 1 Day 2 (1.2 where week.day e.g. for this it is 1.2)
Warm up - same as before

Exercise - same, but concentrating on technique and at least 0.2s/500m faster

1.3
15 minutes weight training - bench press, overhead press, dips, seated pull, you name it

2.1
Same warm up as 1.1

Exercise - 1250m r20 at same split as 1.2

2.2
Warm up - 250m strapless rowing but at last 50 meters, raise stroke rate to 22 and increase pace per stroke by at least one second. This is to get a "feel" for the higher stroke rates of intervals and increased pace of intervals.

Exercise - 500m * 3, r25, 2.5 minute rest. At a pace where you can speak a phrase. This is the anaerobic threshold. Expect the split time to be at least 10 seconds above the split for the 2.1 exercise, especially considering Paul's Law (split time increase by 5s for doubled distance) and the intensity. Note the time. The higher rate increases your speed, works your aerobic system and allows you to use your technique in a quicker fashion. At some point it would be physically very difficult to strengthen your stroke itself - thus the need to increase the rate.

2.3
15 minute weight training - increase rep by 1 if below 12-15 otherwise increase weight. 5 minute cardio.

I have edited the week 1-2 part

3.1
Warm up - 350m strapless rowing at r20, same pace as 2.1

Exercise - 1500m r20, same split as 2.1

3.2
Warm up - same as 2.2 but increase strapless rowing to 350m

Exercise - 500m * 4, r25, 3 minute rest at same pace as 2.2 or more. You should only be able to speak a word or two (anaerobic zone). Note this time as your 500m split for a near full effort 1k.

3.3
Warm up - same as 3.1 but aim to go at least a tenth of a second faster

Exercise - same as 3.1, go 0.2s/500m faster

3.4 (optional)
Warm up - same as 3.1

Exercise - 1000m r18 strapless. Lower stroke rates help develop your strength of the stroke. However the shortened distance enables you to not slow down as much. Expect the split time to be 1-2 seconds slower than 3.1

(to be continued)

For my training i did Day 4 of Week 2, [20min] – It’s very likely now that 20min is less than it took you to row the 5500m this week, so aim to row this at the same pace as the 5500m rows this week.

I rowed 4295m in 20:00 at r20. I got a bit carried away with the pace, but oh well, just focus on technique next time even if you get a bit slower. My split is 2:19.7 which is ~1s above day 3 pace. At least I know next week I can at least finish 6000m in 2:20.7 split at r20.

If I was genuinely able to go sub 8:30 with a lot of discomfort, then... I might be able to do 6500m in under 30 minutes at r20 in week 4. MIGHT. This progress is decent.

Re: Beginner Pete Plan review and prep towards it

Posted: November 17th, 2024, 8:00 am
by PleaseLockIn
Rowan McSheen wrote:
November 14th, 2024, 12:23 pm
Before you do, take a look at these resources.

This is a few workouts to build up from 5 to 20 minutes:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... rRld-hcIPd

And the Zero to Hero plan:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... 19bGqqf3IL

The latter playlist is on another make of rower but the terminology is the same and the workouts are compatible.
I finished my Couch to BPP or Bridge to BPP whatever you want to call it. I personally prefer Couch to BPP, similar to "Couch to 5k" program

What does 1.1 mean? Well, I use it in (week.day) format so the first day of first week of this program is 1.1
The second day of the third week of this program is 3.2

Week 1 and 2: Adapt to rowing

1.1
Warmup - 250m strapless rowing (core stable, etc. benefit)
Exercise - 1000m r20, conversation pace

1.2
Same warmup as 1.1
same as Day 1, concentrate on technique and efficiency, 0.2s/500m faster

1.3
15 minute weight training

2.1
Same warmup as 1.1
1250 r20, same pace as Day 2 Week 1

2.2
Warmup - 250m strapless, r22 (ez hold faster pace, aerobic capability high rate)
500m x 3, 2.5 minute rest, pace can say a phrase

2.3
15 min weight training, 7.5 min cardio

Week 3 and 4 - High intensity sprints, longer distance

3.1
Warm up - 350m strapless rowing at r20, same pace as 2.1

Exercise - 1500m r20, same split as 2.1

3.2
Warm up - same as 2.2 but increase strapless rowing to 350m

Exercise - 500m * 4, r25, 3 minute rest at same pace as 2.2 or more. You should only be able to speak a word or two (anaerobic zone). Note this time as your 500m split for a near full effort 1k.

3.3
Warm up - same as 3.1 but aim to go at least a tenth of a second faster

Exercise - same as 3.1, go 0.2s/500m faster

3.4 (optional)
Warm up - same as 3.1

Exercise - 1000m r18 strapless. Lower stroke rates help develop your strength of the stroke. However the shortened distance enables you to not slow down as much. Expect the split time to be 1-2 seconds slower than 3.1

4.1
Same warmup as 3.3
1750m r20 same pace as 3.3

4.2
Same warmup as 3.2 but faster by half second
Same as 3.2 but 1.5 minute rest (prepare for week 5’s erg to predict 2k)

4.3
Same warmup as 3.3 but 0.2s faster

same as 4.1, 0.2s faster

5.1
500m strapless rowing, r20, full warmup at pace of 4.3

2000m r20 - to go faster and longer it is worth practicing steady state at 2k

5.2
400m strapless rowing at r22, then 100m faster by 3 seconds at r24, warmup. The stroke rate is higher as it is easier to maintain higher pace with faster stroke rate, and trains aerobic capacity

3 x 750m 1.5 min rest, pace can say 1 or 2 words. ~ Predict 2k max

5.3
Same warmup as 500m but r18 to practice having a stronger stroke

2000m r18 - lower stroke rate to practice having stronger stroke

6.1
Same warmup as 5.3 but at r22 and 4 seconds faster

2000m r22 - higher stroke rate to practice aerobic capacity over longer distances, and for training PB to hold a faster pace

6.2
500m strapless rowing, but from start to finish - 100m@r20, 100m@r22, 100m@r24, 100m@r22, 100m@r20. Speed at the pace of 5.1

400m r20, 400m r22, 400m r24, 400m r22, 400m r20 without stopping in between. With a rate increase of 2 you would usually be a couple seconds faster.

6.3
Same warmup as 5.1 but 0.5 second faster at least

2000m r20 half a second faster than 5.1

7.1
Same warmup as 6.3

2500m r20 - longer distance for an easier transition to 5k and 2k further within grasp

7.2
Same warmup as 6.2
3 x 750m 1.5 min rest, pace can say 1 or 2 words. ~ Predict 2k max. Whatever gets you the fastest time with that intensity, with good technique.

7.3
Same warmup as 6.3 but half second faster
2500m r22 - a few seconds faster than 7.1 especially with higher stroke rate

8.1
500m strapless rowing at r22, 1-3 seconds faster than 6.3

2500m in r24, get used to time trial intensity using the higher stroke rate. Pace - 1-3 seconds faster than 7.3 at least.

8.2
Same warmup as 8.1

500m r18, 500m r20, 500m r22, 500m r24, 500m r26 without stopping in between. With 2spm increase you should go faster by a couple seconds. You will get used to sprinting at the end of the TT
8.3
Same warmup as 8.2

2500m time trial - give everything you got. A decent stroke rate and decent pace where you can maintain your technique, perhaps at the predicted 2k max pace minus 1 second. Then for the final 500m empty the tank - you should be nearly collapsing by the effort but barely managing to hang in there

Your 5k max should be this split plus five seconds for each 500m according to Paul’s Law.
But the BPP is not an all-out effort - thus add another 3-5 seconds from this split time.

E.g. if your 2500m time trial is 10:50, this is a 2:10 split. Aim for 2:18-2:20 split for the first 5k in BPP. If possible, keep the stroke rate at 20.

Any criticism?

Re: Beginner Pete Plan review and prep towards it

Posted: November 17th, 2024, 9:28 am
by Dangerscouse
PleaseLockIn wrote:
November 17th, 2024, 8:00 am
Any criticism?
I think it looks good, but I'd be cautious in asking total beginners to row strapless at r24, or even to row strapless at all. It's another complication that they could possibly do without until they have started to generally master the rowing technique.

I row strapless for anything that will be less than r28 or nota TT, but it's taken me a while to build up to r27, as r26 made me feel very twitchy at the finish, so don't underestimate how hard it might be.

If you still want to suggest strapless rowing, I'd word it so that it's their choice rather than making it compulsory. I know a lot of very good ergers who never have, and never will row strapless, so it's definitely not essential.

Re: Beginner Pete Plan review and prep towards it

Posted: November 18th, 2024, 6:14 am
by PleaseLockIn
Dangerscouse wrote:
November 17th, 2024, 9:28 am
PleaseLockIn wrote:
November 17th, 2024, 8:00 am
Any criticism?
I think it looks good, but I'd be cautious in asking total beginners to row strapless at r24, or even to row strapless at all. It's another complication that they could possibly do without until they have started to generally master the rowing technique.

I row strapless for anything that will be less than r28 or nota TT, but it's taken me a while to build up to r27, as r26 made me feel very twitchy at the finish, so don't underestimate how hard it might be.

If you still want to suggest strapless rowing, I'd word it so that it's their choice rather than making it compulsory. I know a lot of very good ergers who never have, and never will row strapless, so it's definitely not essential.
No problem - I'll simply put a disclaimer that everything that asks for strapless rowing is optional. As for myself, strapless is difficult, although if I get the rhythm right it can be done in steady state.

For my BPP 3.1 [6000m] – The distance is still increasing by 500m each week, but your fitness and technique will be progressing rapidly too, so I bet you want to row further than this? Well keep building up gradually and keep logging your sessions in the training diary, and you can look back in a few weeks time at the progress you’ve made. Again, same pace as the 5500m last week, if you can.

28:07.x time, so split of ~2:20.6 or ~126W. My stroke is ~6.3 W/min and my power/weight ratio is ~1.9 W/kg, which is mediocre. Tomorrow I plan to do 3.2 at 2:18.6 pace (9:14.4). I feel I am underperforming aerobically - while my steady state barely increases 500m while barely increasing the pace, I find my intervals can go much quicker than expected.

The final plan (Couch to BPP):
A “Couch to 5k” for rowing in eight weeks

Pros - much faster than most plans (Cee Gee’s plan >20 weeks, Zero to Hero ~12 weeks)

Friendly to those new to fitness yet intense enough to challenge (Brit. Beginner plan NOT do that)

Optional days/modifications to scale difficulty (NONE of the plans have it)

With suggested warmups that are not too time consuming (unlike Zero to Hero)

Cross-training included (with more detail than British Beginner plan)

All weeks - optional cross-training session like 2.3 but increase cardio by 1min each week and try to increase rep by at least 1 each week OR increase weight. Do after optional rowing.

Week 1 and 2 - Adapt to rowing

1.1
Warmup - 250m rowing (core stable, etc. benefit)
Exercise - 1000m r20, conversation pace

1.2
Same warmup as 1.1
same as Day 1, concentrate on technique and efficiency, 0.2s/500m faster

1.3
15 minute weight training (2x8-15 bench press/pushup, 2x8-15 shoulder press/pike pushup, 2x8-15 Romanian deadlift/bodyweight hamstring curl, 2x8-15 lateral raises dumbell/with towel against wall). If more than 15 reps increase weight next set, if less than 8 decrease)

2.1
Same warmup as 1.1
1250 r20, same pace as Day 2 Week 1

2.2
Warmup - 250m, r22 (ez hold faster pace, aerobic capability high rate)
500m x 3, 2.5 minute rest, pace can say a phrase

2.3
Same weight training, with 5 min different cardio

Week 3 and 4 - High intensity sprints, longer distance

3.1
Warm up - 350m rowing at r20, same pace as 2.1

Exercise - 1500m r20, same split as 2.1

3.2
Warm up - same as 2.2 but increase distance to 350m

Exercise - 500m * 4, 3 minute rest, minimum 2.2 pace. You should only be able to speak a word or two (anaerobic zone). Note this time as the 500m split for a near TT effort 1k.

3.3
Warm up - same as 3.1 but aim to go at least a tenth of a second faster

Exercise - same as 3.1, go 0.2s/500m faster

3.4 (optional)
Warm up - same as 3.1

Exercise - 1000m r18. Lower stroke rates help develop your strength of the stroke. However the shortened distance enables you to not slow down as much. Expect the split time to be 1-2 seconds slower than 3.1

4.1
Same warmup as 3.3
1750m r20 same pace as 3.3

4.2
Same warmup as 3.2 but faster by half second
Same as 3.2 but 1.5 minute rest (prepare for week 5’s erg to predict 2k)

4.3
Same warmup as 3.3 but 0.2s faster

same as 4.1, 0.2s faster

4.4 (optional)
1000m r16, keep it 1-3 second slower or less than 3.4 if done. If not, same pace as 1.2. This will further train the power of your stroke and show your improvement in just a few weeks.

5.1
500m rowing, r20, full warmup at pace of 4.3

2000m r20 - to go faster and longer it is worth practicing steady state at 2k

5.2
400m rowing at r22, then 100m faster by 3 seconds at r24, warmup. The stroke rate is higher as it is easier to maintain higher pace with faster stroke rate, and trains aerobic capacity

3 x 750m 1.5 min rest, pace can say 1 or 2 words. ~ Predict 2k max

5.3
Same warmup as 500m but r18 to practice having a stronger stroke

2000m r18 - lower stroke rate to practice having stronger stroke

5.4 (optional)
300m r20, 300m r22, 300m r24, 300m r22, 300m r20 without stopping. A taster of 6.2. Start using your judgement to pace this - do you need to recover from previous sessions or are you good?

6.1
Same warmup as 5.3 but at r22 and 4 seconds faster

2000m r22 - higher stroke rate to practice aerobic capacity over longer distances, and for training PB to hold a faster pace

6.2
500m rowing, but from start to finish - 100m@r20, 100m@r22, 100m@r24, 100m@r22, 100m@r20. Speed at the pace of 5.1

400m r20, 400m r22, 400m r24, 400m r22, 400m r20 without stopping in between. With a rate increase of 2 you would usually be a couple seconds faster. If you did 5.4 try to keep the split of 5.4.

6.3
Same warmup as 5.1 but 0.5 second faster at least

2000m r20 half a second faster than 5.1.

6.4 (optional)
1500m r16 to further improve your stroke. Try to maintain same pace as 4.4 or 3.3

7.1
Same warmup as 6.3

2500m r20 - longer distance for an easier transition to 5k and 2k further within grasp

7.2
Same warmup as 6.2
3 x 750m 1.5 min rest, pace can say 1 or 2 words. ~ Predict 2k max. Whatever gets you the fastest time with that intensity, with good technique.

7.3
Same warmup as 6.3 but half second faster
2500m r22 - a few seconds faster than 7.1 especially with higher stroke rate

7.4 (optional)
2000m @ r24 as trial for 8.1 and get used to higher stroke rates and intensity. 3-5 seconds faster than 6.3 at least.

8.1
500m rowing at r22, 1-3 seconds faster than 6.3

2500m in r24, get used to time trial intensity using the higher stroke rate. Pace - 1-3 seconds faster than 7.3 at least.

8.2
Same warmup as 8.1

500m r18, 500m r20, 500m r22, 500m r24, 500m r26 without stopping in between. With 2spm increase you should go faster by a couple seconds. You will get used to sprinting at the end of the TT.

8.3
Same warmup as 8.2

2500m time trial - give everything you got. A decent stroke rate and decent pace where you can maintain your technique, perhaps at the predicted 2k max pace minus 1 second. Then for the final 500m empty the tank - you should be nearly collapsing by the effort but barely managing to hang in there

Your 5k max should be this split plus five seconds for each 500m according to Paul’s Law.
But the BPP is not an all-out effort - thus add another 3-5 seconds from this split time.

E.g. if your 2500m time trial is 10:50, this is a 2:10 split. Aim for 2:18-2:20 split for the first 5k in BPP. If possible, keep the stroke rate at 20.

8.4 (optional)
1000m r20 at conversation pace for warmup - pace at 1.1 time

5000m at 2.5k-8 to 2.5k-10 split

BPP - start the 5k at 8.4 split and the intervals at 8.3 split

Re: Beginner Pete Plan review and prep towards it

Posted: November 18th, 2024, 7:21 am
by jamesg
I think it looks good, but I'd be cautious in asking total beginners to row strapless at r24, or even to row strapless at all. It's another complication that they could possibly do without until they have started to generally master the rowing technique.
Straps are for emergencies, so must be used. Just don't let them destroy style.

Re: Beginner Pete Plan review and prep towards it

Posted: November 18th, 2024, 8:24 am
by iain
I'd agree re strapless. I introduced a load of errors to enable me to row strapless with poor technique so it isn't a panacea!

From a quick scan (apologies if I missed something), this is all rowing at modest rates with the occasional session above R22. While there is nothing wrong with starting BPP used to rowing at low rates, many will naturally rate 25+ and so the "all out 2.5km" would be a real shock. Also this might make the suggested R20 5k pace unachievable let alone steady state. Some people add 7S per doubling when either strength based or lacking in fitness, so 8-10S would be way to close to their 2.5k for the initial 5k. Unfortunately there is no one size fits all that applies to everyone. Personally I would rather build the distance slowly to 5k beforehand so that doing 2 5k and an interval session was well within my grasp before starting. That way I would know what that pace feels like!

Just my thoughts, would certainly work for many.

Re: Beginner Pete Plan review and prep towards it

Posted: November 18th, 2024, 10:13 am
by p_b82
A more general comment about how you're referencing the pacing of sessions:

It gets tedious to have to look back up to see what the pace you are suggesting is aka "same as 5.1" which was same as 4.2, which was same as 3.1 etc.

I'd suggest that you have a person set a baseline pace and then refer to it for each of your timings after that (maybe in wk2?) - but be sure to explain what that actually means. EG baseline pace +/- 1s/500m. EG baseline pace= 2:45/500m then baseline -1s = 2:44/500m or baseline -10s/500m = 2:35 pace etc.

Why such a short warm up? (I personally find anything less than 4/5mins isn't getting me loosened up - but on my steady states I don't warm up at all, just bake a slower start into my session via -ve splits.)

Similar to Stu's comments about strapless, I'm going to bring up telling people to row at r18 as a novice.

In order to do that you have to really crawl back up the slide with discipline (because we should be keeping the drive time consistent (short) regardless of the rate), and the two easy ways would be to pause at the start/end of the stroke or slow down the drive phase - neither of which is good practice to be learning early on. (habits get harder to break once muscle memory has set in.)

In a similar way, saying that r24 is high rate is a little inaccurate as well. It is higher than r18, but it is not a "high" rate in real terms. (The training bands tables that explain the terminology and HR to RPE descriptions do this much better than I can re-type it; but high rate is typically 30+.)

I'd also question what the end goal is of your plan - You say it's a stepping stone to the BPP/ 5k; the max session length you've got is only 2500m though.

I'd suggest that you include the target distance as a session in your plan as the last thing so the person ticks off the goal itself, you may wish to increment your way there rather than just one last session at 5k.

Re: Beginner Pete Plan review and prep towards it

Posted: November 19th, 2024, 1:44 am
by PleaseLockIn
Couch to BPP
A “Couch to 5k” for rowing in eight weeks

Pros - much faster than most plans (Cee Gee’s plan >20 weeks, Zero to Hero ~12 weeks)

Friendly to those new to fitness yet intense enough to challenge (Brit. Beginner plan NOT do that)

Optional days/modifications to scale difficulty (NONE of the plans have it)

With suggested warmups that are not too time consuming (unlike Zero to Hero)

Cross-training included (with more detail than British Beginner plan)

All weeks - optional cross-training session like 2.3 but increase cardio by 1min each week and try to increase rep by at least 1 each week OR increase weight. Do after optional rowing.

Framework of the plan

Week 1 and 2 - adapt to rowing

Week 3 and 4 - increase steady state to 2k, intro to high intensity intervals

Week 5 and 6 - stronger stroke, comfortable 2k steady state, stronger intervals and TT attempt. Completing week 6 is the minimum to move towards the BPP.

Week 7 and 8 - smooth bridge to BPP by go to 5K. I recommend you complete them, but you can get away with the BPP after only completing the 6th week, especially if you're short on time.

1.1
Warmup - 350m rowing at r22 (core stable, etc. benefit), set as “warmbase”
Exercise - 1000m r22, conversation pace <- steady state base called “steadybase”

1.2
Same warmup as 1.1
same as Day 1, concentrate on technique and efficiency, steadybase-0.2

1.3
15 minute weight training (2x8-15 bench press/pushup, 2x8-15 shoulder press/pike pushup, 2x8-15 Romanian deadlift/bodyweight hamstring curl, 2x8-15 lateral raises dumbell/with towel against wall). If more than 15 reps increase weight next set, if less than 8 decrease)

2.1
Same warmup as 1.1, warmbase-0.2
1300 r22, steadybase-0.2

2.2
Warmup - 500m, r24 (ez hold faster pace, high rate train aerobic) warmbase+2
500m x 3, 2.5 minute rest, pace: can say a phrase. Note split as “intervalbase”

2.3
Same weight training, with 5 min different cardio

Week 3 and 4 - High intensity sprints, longer distance

3.1
Warm up - 500m rowing at r22, warmbase-0.2

Exercise - 1600m r22, steadybase-0.2

3.2
Warm up - 500m, r24, warmbase-2.2. Usually ~2s increase in pace with 2spm higher rate.

Exercise - 500m * 4, 3 minute rest, minimum intervalbase. Pace - can only speak 1-2 words. Note as predicted 1k PB pace (a bit slower than real capability)

3.3
Warm up - 500m rowing at r22, warmbase-0.4

Exercise - 1600m r22, steadybase-0.4

3.4 (optional)
Warm up - same as 3.1

Exercise - 1500m r20, steadybase+2 pace or higher, training stronger stroke and technique

4.1
700m r22, warmbase -0.4

2000m r22 steadybase-0.4

4.2
Same warmup as 3.2, warmbase-2.4
500m * 4, 1.5 min rest, min intervalbase (prepare for week 5’s erg to predict 2k max)

4.3
Same warmup as 3.3, warmbase-0.6

same as 4.1, steadybase-0.6

4.4 (optional)
1500m r20, steadybase+2 pace. This will further train the power of your stroke and show your improvement in just a few weeks.

5.1
700m rowing, r20, full warmup at pace of 4.3

2000m r20 - steadybase+1.4. Consolidate the 2k at r20, to prepare for 30r20 and further strengthen stroke.

5.2
550m rowing at r24, then 150m faster by 3 seconds at r26, warmup without stopping in between. 400m at warmbase-2.6 and then the 100 at warmbase-4

3 x 750m 1.5 min rest, at intervalbase pace or higher. Predicts 2k max.

5.3
700m rowing at r24 at warmbase-4 split

2000m r24 - higher stroke rate to train. steadybase-2.8

5.4 (optional)
300m r22, 300m r24, 300m r26, 300m r24, 300m r22 without stopping. A taster of 6.2. Start using your judgement to pace this - do you need to recover from previous sessions or are you good?

6.1
1000m at r24 at 5.3 pace

2500m r24 at 5.3 pace - we add 500m to the 2k time for 2k to be further comfortable for us.

6.2
1000m rowing, but from start to finish - 200m@r20, 200m@r22, 200m@r24, 200m@r22, 200m@r20. Speed at warmbase-0.6

400m r20, 400m r22, 400m r24, 400m r22, 400m r20 without stopping in between. With a rate increase of 2 you would usually be a couple seconds faster. If you did 5.4 try to keep the split of 5.4.

6.3
1000m warmup at r28, pace with own judgement

2500m time trial.

Target - intervalbase-1.5 split.

Start with 8 hard strokes to speed up the flywheel. Settle at target+1 split until 1000m. Slowly speed up to target split at 1700m. Target-1 split by 2200m. All-out sprint to 2500m, leave nothing back, you should almost collapse at this point.

If you want to start the BPP the week after this you can do it - Your 5k max should be this split plus five seconds for each 500m according to Paul’s Law.
But the BPP is not an all-out effort - thus add another 3-6 seconds from this split time.

E.g. if your 2500m time trial is 10:50, this is a 2:10 split. Aim for 2:18-2:21 split for the first 5k in BPP. If possible, keep the stroke rate at 20. But if not, feel free to increase stroke rate to 24 or even 26, but keeping the split 8-11s below the 2.5k tt. You can always lower the stroke rate slowly to 20 in the BPP.

6.4 (optional)
2000m r20 to further improve your stroke. Try to maintain steadybase-0.4 or steadybase-0.2 pace

7.1
1000m r22 at warmbase-1.5 split

3000m r22. Now your objective is to increase the steady state to 5k, desperately hanging on to maintain the same speed. Steadybase-0.8 split.

7.2
Same warmup as 6.2
600m r20, 600m r22, 600m r24, 600m r22, 600m r20 maintain same speed overall, but 2s slower for r20 2s faster for r24

7.3
Same warmup as 6.3 but half second faster
3500m r22. Maintain 7.1 speed.

7.4 (optional)
500m * 5 intervals, 2 min rest. Pace 0.2s faster than intervalbase split.

8.1
1500m r22 at warmbase-1.5

700m r20, 700m r22, 700m r24, 700m r22, 700m r20 same speed as 7.3

8.2
You can decide your warmup

4000m @ r22, again, steadybase-0.8

8.3
You can decide your warmup here

5000m, at steadystate-0.8, if at all possible @r22. Note your stroke rate and pace. For day 1 and 3 of Week 1 BPP pace your 5ks at this split.

8.4 (optional)
Warmup - you decide
6 * 500m with 2 min rest. Pace at 0.2s faster than interval-base split or more. Pace your 6*500m with 2 min rest (Week 1 day 2) in BPP at this pace.

Now for my replies to people who replied
I have decided to increase the stroke rates of everything by 2. Now we have many sessions at r24 or even higher (for the intervals they can have higher stroke rates like 26 or 28). For the 2.5k TT they can even set their stroke rate at 30 for all out.

The first 6 weeks is to secure the 2k, ending with 2.5k TT. The warmups are longer and I have set baseline paces (for steady state, intervals, etc.).

The last 2 weeks is to address the criticism that the plan stops at 2.5k. It might be too quick though - in which case they can speed up the stroke rate or slow down by 0.8s to the steadybase if necessary.

PS I wonder if I am overestimating a novice's ability—maybe my views are colored by my own experiences of only rowing a 2k at UT1/AT pace then jumping directly in the BPP and getting away with it (for now). Maybe that's why I thought it wasn't necessary to have rowed 5k in order to start the BPP.

Re: Beginner Pete Plan review and prep towards it

Posted: November 19th, 2024, 6:37 am
by p_b82
In answer to your final PS I think that "depends".

some-one who has done no activity at all might struggle with completing 1k without a rest - that would be a novice to exercise not just a novice to rowing.

Some-one who's got some baseline fitness from other sports, would be ok (I suspect you are in this group).

I had a background in hiking - I had muscle endurance but not much aerobic base - as I'd do 3-5hr hikes once a week; about 15-18k.
In my 1st 8 weeks I went from 2k (10mins) ->11.5k (1hour) - totally unstructured, but just incremental distance almost every session (2/3 a week) and no concern about the pace/rate.
Longer steady state didn't bother me - just had earbuds in and zoned out - but that's not for every-one.

Re: Beginner Pete Plan review and prep towards it

Posted: November 19th, 2024, 7:01 am
by iain
My take on your PS is that people are not good at abiding by pace recommendations. Some people don't understand that as all the work is done in less than 1/3 of the time they need to produce much higher force than in cycling or running when working and so pace is a long way below the ideal, while others will ignore requirements to be able to speak etc. so will be pushing too hard. The latter group will struggle to jump from 2.5 to 5k. I know that the 5k is an easier pace, but they may well be feeling it before halfway and seeing more distance left than they are used to completing continuously might give the H/D Demons the ammunition they need to do their evil work! The former group do not need so much concentration on short distances as they will be barely raising a sweat on some of the sessions!