Concept2 Forum

Hello

My power curve is a bit like two joined waves at times but try as I may, I cannot get it to consistently improve. I try correcting what I think may be wrong, and this improves or worsens it, but even when my power curve is finally better, I'm not sure why and then it goes back to being two waves with a slight trough between them on the next catch or maybe the one after.

I think I do a backswing. It's surely not perfect, but I don't think it's missing entirely either.

If it helps, I'm also not very explosive. I have always been better at endurance (slow twitch muscles) than at strength (fast twitch muscles). But even if I drop the drag factor, the two-wave power curve still risks showing up, but maybe at bit less.

Any ideas and fixes please?

I'm by no means an erg expert, but I bet at least a few who are would tell you to not worry too much about a small dip at the peak of the force curve, especially if you've tried everything you can think of to fix it.

Having said that, I also think that even without seeing your row some folks here will have good ideas on how to eliminate the problem. Which reminds me of another potential solution - if you're brave post a link to a side view video of you erging. I'm confident that will get you actionable feedback.

Good Luck

What you see could be the transition from knees and hips acting together at the catch to arms acting alone at the finish, which is how erging is done.

The curve cannot be a perfect sinewave: legs and hips contain at least five times as much muscle as arms, so using the legs at the catch there will be an early peak force.

If you do a backstop drill for warmup (arms only, then add swing, then slide) and read Watts/Ratings you can see where your power comes from.

Dave Neve wrote: ↑

October 2nd, 2024, 9:22 pm

My power curve is a bit like two joined waves at times but try as I may, I cannot get it to consistently improve. I try correcting what I think may be wrong, and this improves or worsens it, but even when my power curve is finally better, I'm not sure why and then it goes back to being two waves with a slight trough between them on the next catch or maybe the one after.

First of all: any meter rowed is a good meter. Improving force curve makes you more efficient, but as long as you don't have pains or aches from rowing, not a direct necessity.

The dip typically points to a suboptimal transition. How to solve it is dependent on its origin. Some hints might come from the placement of the dip in the curve (normally the leg to back transition is first behind the highest peak, then the back to arms transition is found later in the curve).

What causes a auboptimal transition is difficult to assess without video. Might be a too late transition, might be a posture issue (weak back position), might be a sequencing issue (breaking arms too early). All could cause this.

And realize, many true improvements takes ages to engrave in your system. I had some great help from John Steventon to recognize my back posture was weak (causing a dent in my force curve), but it originated from my bad finish position. With focus I can correct it. But initially I couldn't get through a 5K without relapsing in old habits. Currently I'm working to survive a 10K with good posture, and the 21K will follow. In part this is because I need to concentrate to keep good posture, but also because some muscles need to get stronger and fitter.

Dave Neve wrote: ↑

October 2nd, 2024, 9:22 pm

If it helps, I'm also not very explosive. I have always been better at endurance (slow twitch muscles) than at strength (fast twitch muscles). But even if I drop the drag factor, the two-wave power curve still risks showing up, but maybe at bit less.

What is wrong with accepting that? Most here are no Olympic material. We train to get/stay fit. A stroke that provides a decent resistance is enough to do that. I'm not explosive either, and I have a bit higher drag on the machine, allowing a slower but more powerfull stroke.

I'd agree that it is likely to be a transition. I have seen this most often when people exaggerate the sequencing. The stroke should be a smooth acceleration of the handle with the end of each phase overlapping with the start of the next. Some people take the sequential nature to extremes and largely finish the leg drive before starting with the back and so the force drops while this picks up the slack. The other more intuitive fault is often from trying to be more explosive at the catch and adding in part of the arm pull or back leverage up front which naturally reduces its availability later in the stroke. As for putting it right, it is a long job to change muscle memory so you just need to stay alert and keep correcting. What you can do for a couple of strokes now then becomes 5-6 before it starts to become the rule. That said, most bad habits return as we tire, so good to do many of your rows with regular breaks rather than bashing away in one piece to exhaustion.

I can pull a nice flat topped force curve at relaxed pace if I use a higher drag factor. Sometimes I notice a tiny dip in the middle. This is an indication that I am not concentrated enough on maintaining the pull all the way through. At race pace I would use a drag factor 15-20 points lower (120-125) and there I have found out that the force curve gets front loaded as I am tiring and the only way to get more speed is to front load it even more. I have never been able to get more speed by pushing the force curve up in the middle. The maximum force is recorded after 10-15% of the stroke and its downhill from there. For me it is counterproductive the try and fix this, I would only be slower.

I agree with Iain. I suspect that you're possibly focusing too much on the push and not incorporating the pull early enough, so when you naturally transition from lower body to upper body there's a slight disconnect.

It might be something else, but it does sound likely to me.

I find I get a slight dip on my force curve when I'm just tootling along at a low rate/effort session; but when I'm pressing on it smooths out.

I'm pretty sure, that for me it's because of the low effort I'm consciously not pushing hard with my legs, and thus I drop off in force applied before the hip swing and arms engage again

Two spots for dip (at least).

RULE out arms as cause for dip by dropping arm pressure and making sure you don't pull until your back swing is almost done. If you do this and still see the dip then its the legs to back swing transition.

Having a double hump force curve is BETTER than firing leg+back+arms all at the same time crossfit style.

If your double hump force curve is from the legs to back-swing transition then you can play with starting swing just a bit sooner or leave it as is. Late back swing is not a problem, and will naturally go away at higher rates. Being late much better than being early for back swing because your back is protected until your leg force drops. Early back makes back stabilizer muscles fight and lose vs your legs.

If cause of double hump force curve is arms then you really want to fix it. Its caused by using arms hard while still in back swing. This is common for strong people and is not great for back. (puts higher load on back compared to back swing followed by arms - as shown in the force curve).