Concept2 Forum

Hi all, this is my second week of rowing 10k m daily.
My goal is to lose fat and gain muscle.
I do strength training 3 x times a week and rowing 6 x times.
I ideally want steady state cardio so aim for 10k m in roughly 55 minutes. I have shaved 7 mins off my first row but can't seem to get enough power on the pull, and my stroke rate is about 30 s/m.

Any advice on improving my power and time please ?

I am 6ft and 134kg ( lost 7 kg in lady month )

Welcome to the forum.

Do you know what drag factor you're using? It might be too high or low.

You're only two weeks into this training programme , but is this also only two weeks of training on the rower? Going seven minutes faster in just over a week is great progress, so you're possibly making as much progress as you can.

Doing that much weight training and rowing is a lot to cope with, so are you starting from a very sedentary background? It sounds counter productive but you might be better advised to do a bit less as you do need to time to allow your body to adapt.

You'll gain almost all of your muscle/strength from your strength training.

Rowing will improve your cardiovascular system and burn some calories. Unless you do 20 second all-out sprints, you're not pulliing hard enough to build muscle.

gvcormac wrote: ↑

August 15th, 2024, 5:52 pm

You'll gain almost all of your muscle/strength from your strength training.

Rowing will improve your cardiovascular system and burn some calories. Unless you do 20 second all-out sprints, you're not pulliing hard enough to build muscle.

I think that depends upon your starting point. As someone who has not done strength training for 35 years I have definitely increased muscle when rowing, but will never have a heavily muscled body as a result. Conventional wisdom is that you can't lose fat without losing some muscle. Indeed body builders cycle through bulking up and losing weight. That said, exercising during weight loss will reduce the muscle loss and losing the fat will make the remaining muscle more visible.

Well done on making a start on the weight loss and the volume of work done.

As for what you are doing, you may find that slowing the recovery between strokes enables you to get more power in the stroke. Done properly you should be pushing hard during the drive and then allowing your muscles to recover before the next drive. For regular training of 10k most of us do 22 or less strokes a minute not 30. As a result the effort during the drive is much higher than more continuous exercises and has been variously compared to a horizontal squat or dead lift. The aim is to go back with a smooth acceleration of the handle much quicker than the gentle slide back to the catch. You may be losing power particularly if the initial leg drive is not matched by the handle accelerating at the same speed. This is often because the catch is taken with bent arms (so legs initially straighten the arms), hands are too low at the catch (initial drive lifts up the chain) or you are in a weak position at the catch and rock forward (legs rocking you over).

I suggest you pay some attention o the "work per stroke". Divide the watts by the stroke rate. So 10k in 55min averages 83W so @ 30SPM, 2.8WMin (168J). A 1m squat would be 134 x 9.8 x 1 = 1313J ( 21.9WMin). While you would not expect to maintain the same power as a squat for a 10k, I suspect that you could readily double your current work per stroke. At 18SPM double your current work per stroke would be 2.8 x 2 x 18 = 101W or about 2:30 per 500m (50min 10k). It does depend how long your stroke is, but at present I suspect that more of your energy is going into [propelling your weight up and down the rail than pulling the handle and so it is not recorded by the machine. As the energy required to go up and down the slide increases with the cube of the rating, this will be greatly reduced at lower ratings leaving you with the capacity to use the energy to accelerate the handle. For now I suggest concentrating on pulling strong strokes with a slow recovery rather than the overall pace. Get teh stroke right and greater speed will follow.

iain wrote: ↑

August 16th, 2024, 3:37 am

"55, lightweight in pace and by gravity. Currently training 3-4 times a week after a break to slowly regain the pitiful fitness I achieved a few years ago."

Love the bio Iain...made me chuckle as I feel the same

Thanks for all the advice, going to slow down the strokes and put more effort into proper form

iain wrote: ↑

August 16th, 2024, 3:37 am

gvcormac wrote: ↑

August 15th, 2024, 5:52 pm

You'll gain almost all of your muscle/strength from your strength training.

Rowing will improve your cardiovascular system and burn some calories. Unless you do 20 second all-out sprints, you're not pulliing hard enough to build muscle.

I think that depends upon your starting point. As someone who has not done strength training for 35 years I have definitely increased muscle when rowing, but will never have a heavily muscled body as a result. Conventional wisdom is that you can't lose fat without losing some muscle. Indeed body builders cycle through bulking up and losing weight. That said, exercising during weight loss will reduce the muscle loss and losing the fat will make the remaining muscle more visible.

Point well taken. For most of my life, I was a runner (first sprinting then 10k+) and ignored resistance work. I had no interest (and still have no interest) in bulking up. But I'm now convinced that I need to do resistance training to ward off the dreaded sarcopenia, and probably should've started long ago. It is unfortunate that most of the interweb advice is about "hypertrophy" which I don't give a damn about.

OP said they were already doing strength work, which is great. I'm just trying to say that rowing complements that, but the strength work is what's important for strength, and rowing is important for cardio, endurance, etc.

[PS Two years ago I could do approximately zero pull-ups or dips, and I can now do several sets of a dozen. Rowing throughout. Leg strength improvement is less clear, but I think my leg strength comes from stairs and running, not rowing.]

gvcormac wrote: ↑

August 16th, 2024, 6:09 pm

But I'm now convinced that I need to do resistance training to ward off the dreaded sarcopenia, and probably should've started long ago. It is unfortunate that most of the interweb advice is about "hypertrophy" which I don't give a damn about.

Sarcopenia is the loss of muscle mass. Hypertrophy training is the building up of muscle mass. So it’s exactly what you do/should give a damn about.

RolandG wrote: ↑

August 17th, 2024, 3:12 am

gvcormac wrote: ↑

August 16th, 2024, 6:09 pm

But I'm now convinced that I need to do resistance training to ward off the dreaded sarcopenia, and probably should've started long ago. It is unfortunate that most of the interweb advice is about "hypertrophy" which I don't give a damn about.

Sarcopenia is the loss of muscle mass. Hypertrophy training is the building up of muscle mass. So it’s exactly what you do/should give a damn about.

No. I don't want to bulk up. I want to prevent loss of muscle and strength. Perhaps I was unclear. Most of the "hypertrophy" stuff is about how to get bulging muscles for aesthetic purposes.

Either way, resistance exercise is key, and rowing, cycling, and endurance running are insufficient.

Unless a person is one of those freak of nature types, there shouldn't be any concern about bulking up. Bulking up is hard, intentional work and it doesn't happen by accident for the vast majority of people.

gvcormac wrote: ↑

August 17th, 2024, 8:51 am

No. I don't want to bulk up. I want to prevent loss of muscle and strength. Perhaps I was unclear. Most of the "hypertrophy" stuff is about how to get bulging muscles for aesthetic purposes.

Nobody said anything about bulking up, which is unlikely, anyway. To prevent loss of muscle, you need to build up muscle. Thus, you would benefit more from hypertrophy training than from strength training. A common compromise is so called powerbuilding training, which combines both, but isn’t as effective for either one.

RolandG wrote: ↑

August 17th, 2024, 10:49 am

gvcormac wrote: ↑

August 17th, 2024, 8:51 am

No. I don't want to bulk up. I want to prevent loss of muscle and strength. Perhaps I was unclear. Most of the "hypertrophy" stuff is about how to get bulging muscles for aesthetic purposes.

Nobody said anything about bulking up, which is unlikely, anyway. To prevent loss of muscle, you need to build up muscle. Thus, you would benefit more from hypertrophy training than from strength training. A common compromise is so called powerbuilding training, which combines both, but isn’t as effective for either one.

I suggested that one should not pay much attention to the gym bro internet advice, because it is focused on hypertrophy for the purpose of bulking up. That said, even just to maintain muscle mass & strength, you need more resistance than cardio -- including rowerg -- provides.

As I have started to row more again, I have moved towards more systems of weights that allow me to still do powerlifting comps and train 6 days a week with rowing, cycling walking and a martial art class. I now barely touch above 82% of my 1 rep max and get more reps in. I can still hit maxes for comps and include bodyweight exercises as well. I have recently come down 15 kg and I am stronger than when I was larger. My whole experience has taught me that most rep numbers will build muscle if done regular enough. I thinks its an ever changing thing depending how we are currently training.