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1k pace for a 7min 2K?
Posted: May 1st, 2024, 9:44 pm
by robhely
I'm still chasing that elusive 7min 2k, which is probably easy for a young, tall, HW, but not for this ageing, not very tall, LW.
I'm doing 4 x SS sessions per week and 1 x high intensity intervals, but curious to know what sort of 1k time I'd be looking at to put me in the ballpark of a 7min 2k.
My best 2k so far is a 7:09.9 from late last year. Around that time I was regularly doing 6 x 500m 2r intervals at around 1:47.5, which seemed to be a very accurate predictor. Recently I did 6 x 500m 2r at 1:45.5, which makes me feel like I'm edging a bit closer to the goal. Yesterday I did 1k in 3:26.2 / 1:43.1.
I don't think I'm quite there yet, but I feel like it's within reach.
I've also put on about 5kg (mostly muscle mass?) since doing my last 2k test, so the extra weight and a bit more power might help?
For those who have recently done a 2k in around 7:00, what does your 1k look like?
Re: 1k pace for a 7min 2K?
Posted: May 2nd, 2024, 12:26 am
by jamesg
Pace based predictors suggest double the distance, pace plus 6-7 seconds; and a 7' 2k is 1:45, so 1:38 for 1k and low 1:30s for a 500.
I used Watts, which is linear, with a 15% differential; so for 300W 2k, 1k needs 300/0.85 = 350W, 1:40. A single 500 would be at 350/0.85 = 415W, 1:34.
Your longer times put you at 7 minutes already, as for endurance, so what you lack is sheer speed. This can be trained: in a progressive 2k plan, we can see what's in the last month before racing:
http://3.8.144.21/training/interactive
Re: 1k pace for a 7min 2K?
Posted: May 2nd, 2024, 12:36 am
by Sakly
For me in the beginning I got a 6:58.x 2k and had a 1k of 3:24.x and 500m of 1:34.x
Re: 1k pace for a 7min 2K?
Posted: May 2nd, 2024, 12:38 am
by Dangerscouse
robhely wrote: ↑May 1st, 2024, 9:44 pm
I'm still chasing that elusive 7min 2k, which is probably easy for a young, tall, HW, but not for this ageing, not very tall, LW.
Don't forget Rob, there's nothing easy about a sub 7 2k for anyone, and many big, strong and young rowers will never achieve it, so when you do it you should be very proud.
As a rough guide your 1k should be five seconds faster, which is exactly where mine is FWIW, but I'm not convinced that a 1k is a great indication of 2k as there is quite a marked difference between them.
Keep doing what you're doing and don't worry about the usual pace indicators. Your hard work will pay off, but it's important to note that you may never achieve your goal, but when you possibly can you've got to keep going for it
Re: 1k pace for a 7min 2K?
Posted: May 2nd, 2024, 3:13 am
by iain
I have never managed a 7 min 2k, but looking at light weights who have, those with 5ks close to yours would typically pull about 3:21 or so. That said, as Stu says there is more to 2k than that and I think the difference is in the mental side and being able to hold the required rating. There is the world of difference between having 600 to go in a 1k as the oxygen debt bites and 1500 to go in a 2k, there is no equivalent of the 1k - 1.5k "deadzone" in a 1k so how you pace it and deal with that is the key difference. Re rating, I find that 31SPM pushes my breathing (62 Breaths per min) to its limit (although I am asthmatic) and so while I can manage this for 1k, 2k is a struggle and if my breathing gets out of synch with my stroke the pace drops off.
Traditionally people use 500s to get used to the higher ratings, but these are only useful if you do them at 2 breaths per minute as you can do 500s with only 1 for much if not all of then interval. I have heard 6x500 r1' and 8x500 r2' as predictors, but only if they are done at 2k ratings.
Best of luck
Iain
Re: 1k pace for a 7min 2K?
Posted: May 2nd, 2024, 6:05 am
by alex9026
What do your sessions look like, how long have you been using this approach? Pete's plan is a popular choice for those with 2k aspirations and incorporates 2x interval sessions, may be worth a look?
Re: 1k pace for a 7min 2K?
Posted: May 2nd, 2024, 7:11 am
by robhely
Thanks for the replies, some very useful information there as usual.
My 1k at the time of getting my 2k PB was around 5 seconds faster, which seems consistent with others experience. By that rationale I'm still a ways off I think. I could likely improve my 7:09.9, but only by a fraction.
I realise the 2k is a very different mental battle to the 1k and would probably require a bit more specialised training than my 4 x 45m SS sessions and 1 x intervals sessions per week.
Re: 1k pace for a 7min 2K?
Posted: May 2nd, 2024, 7:33 am
by Sakly
robhely wrote: ↑May 2nd, 2024, 7:11 am
Thanks for the replies, some very useful information there as usual.
My 1k at the time of getting my 2k PB was around 5 seconds faster, which seems consistent with others experience. By that rationale I'm still a ways off I think. I could likely improve my 7:09.9, but only by a fraction.
I realise the 2k is a very different mental battle to the 1k and would probably require a bit more specialised training than my 4 x 45m SS sessions and 1 x intervals sessions per week.
Hard interval/distance sessions at race pace or faster build the backbone of every training plan to develop the speed for the event.
Many long steadies will make you go long and slow for a long period of time.
Many short bursts of high speed or short fast distances will make you fast.
Re: 1k pace for a 7min 2K?
Posted: May 2nd, 2024, 11:08 am
by MPx
robhely wrote: ↑May 2nd, 2024, 7:11 am
I realise the 2k is a very different mental battle to the 1k and would probably require a bit more specialised training than my 4 x 45m SS sessions and 1 x intervals sessions per week.
If you want to focus on getting that 2k target then for a 2 month lead up to a test I think your should swap one of the SS sessions for a second hard session in the week. One of them sprinty 500s/250s/1min etc faster than target pace. The other hard session a longer interval say 1k or 1.5 or 2 on 5min rests and make them as close to target pace as you can - maybe try +3/+5/+7 on those examples and adjust as necessary.
FWIW I'm stronger at the sprinty end rather than distance. Last season I was 3:16x for 1k and 7:02x for 2k which is a >7s pace difference - but those with better engines dont suffer that level of performance drop off as distance increases.
Re: 1k pace for a 7min 2K?
Posted: May 2nd, 2024, 11:51 am
by Spinal
robhely wrote: ↑May 1st, 2024, 9:44 pm
I'm still chasing that elusive 7min 2k, which is probably easy for a young, tall, HW, but not for this ageing, not very tall, LW.
I'm doing 4 x SS sessions per week and 1 x high intensity intervals, but curious to know what sort of 1k time I'd be looking at to put me in the ballpark of a 7min 2k.
My best 2k so far is a 7:09.9 from late last year. Around that time I was regularly doing 6 x 500m 2r intervals at around 1:47.5, which seemed to be a very accurate predictor. Recently I did 6 x 500m 2r at 1:45.5, which makes me feel like I'm edging a bit closer to the goal. Yesterday I did 1k in 3:26.2 / 1:43.1.
I don't think I'm quite there yet, but I feel like it's within reach.
I've also put on about 5kg (mostly muscle mass?) since doing my last 2k test, so the extra weight and a bit more power might help?
For those who have recently done a 2k in around 7:00, what does your 1k look like?
As a small, lightweight rower aiming for a sub7 2k, I struggled to achieve fast times in the 1k or 500m, so I concentrated on maintaining a strong, steady rhythm at a higher stroke rate 33/34spm. After eight weeks of building a foundation and focusing on technique drills, my 2k time was 7:19.
After base I started the Pete Plan, and during the second cycle of the PP, my splits were:
8 x 500 r4:15 01:43.3
Speed Pyramid 01:44.5
4 x 1000 r5 01:45.8
A week out from the 2k I completed a mile time trial at a pace of 01:42.8, which, by Paul's Law, suggested a sub-7 minute was within reach. It also allowed me to experience the intensity and mentally gear up for the upcoming 2k.
Aiming for a sub7 on the SkiErg with this same strategy has so far proven unsuccessful, as my lack of height, weight, and power is particularly evident over shorter distances. While my endurance interval times are on par with those from the rower, my speed intervals remain a split or two out. I've now reached a point where finding the motivation to push myself through the ringer is becoming increasingly difficult. I could be doing with some of that 5kg muscle mass you've put on!!
Good luck with your training.
Re: 1k pace for a 7min 2K?
Posted: May 3rd, 2024, 2:14 am
by robhely
Spinal wrote: ↑May 2nd, 2024, 11:51 am
As a small, lightweight rower aiming for a sub7 2k, I struggled to achieve fast times in the 1k or 500m, so I concentrated on maintaining a strong, steady rhythm at a higher stroke rate 33/34spm. After eight weeks of building a foundation and focusing on technique drills, my 2k time was 7:19.
After base I started the Pete Plan, and during the second cycle of the PP, my splits were:
8 x 500 r4:15 01:43.3
Speed Pyramid 01:44.5
4 x 1000 r5 01:45.8
A week out from the 2k I completed a mile time trial at a pace of 01:42.8, which, by Paul's Law, suggested a sub-7 minute was within reach. It also allowed me to experience the intensity and mentally gear up for the upcoming 2k.
Aiming for a sub7 on the SkiErg with this same strategy has so far proven unsuccessful, as my lack of height, weight, and power is particularly evident over shorter distances. While my endurance interval times are on par with those from the rower, my speed intervals remain a split or two out. I've now reached a point where finding the motivation to push myself through the ringer is becoming increasingly difficult. I could be doing with some of that 5kg muscle mass you've put on!!
Good luck with your training.
Thanks, really interesting to hear about your 2k journey as a LW. That's a huge improvement going from 7:19 to 6:58, the training really paid off!
It definitely sounds like I need to do more speed work, especially longer intervals such as 4 x 1000.
It's manageable for me to to do SS sessions on the same day as lifting, but not intervals (as I've learned the hard way), so I might have to rethink my current plan of 5 x rowing and 4 x strength training sessions per week.
It will be fun to mix it up a bit, I am getting a bit sick of holding back in the UT2 zone most of the time. Especially as I've slowed down my UT2 as I was going a bit too hard to facilitate recovery.
Re: 1k pace for a 7min 2K?
Posted: May 3rd, 2024, 3:02 am
by jamesg
I'm doing 4 x SS sessions per week and 1 x high intensity intervals
Suggest you do the SS as warmup, so that you can do race pace or faster work after.
In detail, the weeks before a race may look something like this, from one of the many Interactive schedules:
24 2x18'UT1 8x45sAN 4x3'TR 3x12'AT 3x6'TR
25 2x15UT1 6x1.5'AN 2x5'TR 2x8'AT 4x2'TR
26 25'UT2 1x3'TR 3x1.5'AN 3x45s AN RACE
All plus warmup.
Re: 1k pace for a 7min 2K?
Posted: May 3rd, 2024, 4:55 am
by Dangerscouse
robhely wrote: ↑May 3rd, 2024, 2:14 am
It definitely sounds like I need to do more speed work, especially longer intervals such as 4 x 1000.
It's manageable for me to to do SS sessions on the same day as lifting, but not intervals (as I've learned the hard way), so I might have to rethink my current plan of 5 x rowing and 4 x strength training sessions per week.
Imo, I think that 5 x 1500m is a better option, but I do know that a lot of others really like 4 x 1k.
There can be a world of difference from the first 1k and the second 1k so nudging up to 1500m gives you a better grasp of what's to come and what you need to do. Personally I find this is a great confidence boost as the last 500m
can be relatively manageable due to pride and knowing it's almost over.
Clearly you know yourself far better than me, but I'm thinking that five rows and four weights is a lot of training. Can you condense the weights to twice a week and all body workouts?
Re: 1k pace for a 7min 2K?
Posted: May 3rd, 2024, 5:31 am
by Sakly
robhely wrote: ↑May 3rd, 2024, 2:14 am
It's manageable for me to to do SS sessions on the same day as lifting, but not intervals (as I've learned the hard way), so I might have to rethink my current plan of 5 x rowing and 4 x strength training sessions per week.
Are these 4 strength sessions split sessions for specific muscle groups? If so, do you think you are so advanced in strength training, that this is a must?
I assume that this is not the case and you could easily go for 3 sessions a week, full body, tear down the volume of them as well, up the intensity and add a hard interval to one of them. Another hard interval on a non strength day and reducing the steady volume as needed for recovery. You will be sub 7 in no time.
For reference: 4x1k 3:30r was on point for me as a predictor of a 2k.
Re: 1k pace for a 7min 2K?
Posted: May 3rd, 2024, 6:42 am
by wizzard
Sakly wrote: ↑May 2nd, 2024, 7:33 am
Many short bursts of high speed or short fast distances will make you fast.
... and increase the testosterone level while the very long and steady may have the opposite effect.