1k pace for a 7min 2K?

General discussion on Training. How to get better on your erg, how to use your erg to get better at another sport, or anything else about improving your abilities.
robhely
1k Poster
Posts: 180
Joined: March 28th, 2023, 5:40 pm

Re: 1k pace for a 7min 2K?

Post by robhely » May 12th, 2024, 8:07 pm

AndyNewland wrote:
May 9th, 2024, 9:27 am
3:18 for me. I probably have relatively more power than stamina.
It's interesting that in spite of your 1k being significantly faster than mine, our 5ks are about the same and my 30min is faster.

As other have said, the 2k is a unique blend of aerobic capacity and strength. I guess it's possible to have more or less of either and still get the same result.
M/53/179cm/74.8kg
started rowing late 2022

PBs
1k: 3:26.2
2k: 7:09.9
5k: 18:46.0
30min: 7,847m
10k: 38:57.0
60min: 15,060m
HM: 1:26:14.1

robhely
1k Poster
Posts: 180
Joined: March 28th, 2023, 5:40 pm

Re: 1k pace for a 7min 2K?

Post by robhely » May 12th, 2024, 8:17 pm

HornetMaX wrote:
May 11th, 2024, 5:05 pm

I think I'm in the same camp: I need some level of disgustingness to prepare for a 2K.
I've recently done a 8x500m+3R averaging 2KP - 4s: my 2KP is a bit old, but I'm not even sure I can actually repeat it right now so I'm not confident this predicts my current 2KP.

I've also done a 4x1K+6R at my 2K pace (targetting to hold the same pace on the 4 intervals). Questions:
I think there definitely needs to be some disgustingness involved, possibly just shy of the vomit bowl. I did 4 x 1000m over the weekend and it felt horrible, probably because I did my usual trick of going way too hard on the first one and paying dearly for it on the last 2. I'm dreading taking this up to 1500, but I think that if I pace it sensibly it might be OK. I'm going to go with Stu's suggestion, which puts me at around my 5k pace or even slower.

My 4 x 1000s have always been slower than my 2k pace, I find that for me 6 x 500 is a better predictor.

It's hard talking about "2k pace" when you haven't done one for a while as it's hard to know what sort of pace one would be looking at right now in a 2k test.
M/53/179cm/74.8kg
started rowing late 2022

PBs
1k: 3:26.2
2k: 7:09.9
5k: 18:46.0
30min: 7,847m
10k: 38:57.0
60min: 15,060m
HM: 1:26:14.1

Sakly
Half Marathon Poster
Posts: 2833
Joined: January 13th, 2022, 10:49 am

Re: 1k pace for a 7min 2K?

Post by Sakly » May 13th, 2024, 1:29 am

robhely wrote:
May 12th, 2024, 8:07 pm
AndyNewland wrote:
May 9th, 2024, 9:27 am
3:18 for me. I probably have relatively more power than stamina.
It's interesting that in spite of your 1k being significantly faster than mine, our 5ks are about the same and my 30min is faster.

As other have said, the 2k is a unique blend of aerobic capacity and strength. I guess it's possible to have more or less of either and still get the same result.
My training partner and myself are a good example for showing this mix needed for a 2k. Same height, 3kg difference in weight (I'm heavier).
On 100m and 200m we are equally fast (16.1, 32.7), but on 500m already 1:27.1 and 1:29.7, on 2k 6:37 and his is 7:12(!). He has good explosiveness, much better than me, and with a better stroke technique he could easily beat my sprint times. But when it comes to longer distances, he breaks down quite quickly, when I can go on like a diesel engine. For a 2k you are better off with a good stamina and less strength.
Male - '80 - 82kg - 177cm - Start rowErg Jan 2022
1': 355m
4': 1217m
30'r20: 8068m
30': 8,283m
60': 16,222m
100m: 0:16.1
500m: 1:27.1
1k: 3:07.8
2k: 6:37.1
5k: 17:39.6
6k: 21:15.3
10k: 36:01.5
HM: 1:18:40.1
FM: 2:52:32.6
My log

iain
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Posts: 925
Joined: October 11th, 2007, 6:56 am
Location: Reading, UK

Re: 1k pace for a 7min 2K?

Post by iain » May 13th, 2024, 4:46 am

There is no "right" pace to aim for now. The last faster approach is the Pete Plan approach of targeting what you are sure you could do for the whole session initially and then whatever you have for the last. It should be easier to row at a constant pace, so you then start next set at the average of the previous attempt as you now know you can do the whole sessions at that pace. You would need to go slower on the first 4 1500s if you wish to go at 2k pace for a full 1500. 3 x 1500 will be slower than 2k pace as few are much faster on 4 x 1k. Personally I would do a standalone 1500 at 2k target in preparation for the TT, but that would not be optimal training, but good mental preparation. 3 x 1.5k would be a better training session while getting you used to the "deadzone" of 1 - 1.5k required of an all out 2k and giving you the belief needed to power through it at pace against the wishes of your body. Personally I believe 2ks are better long intervals to get you used to rowing longer distances at pace. 4 x 2k is only slightly slower than 5k pace. THese are different to a 2k as not intense, but get the mind used to over ruling body as you go above threshold on each!
55, lightweight in pace, trying to get back to Lwt by gravity. Currently training 3 times a week after a break to slowly regain the pitiful fitness I achieved a few years ago. Free Spirit, come join us http://www.freespiritsrowing.com/forum/

alex9026
2k Poster
Posts: 236
Joined: September 11th, 2022, 1:24 pm

Re: 1k pace for a 7min 2K?

Post by alex9026 » May 13th, 2024, 6:11 am

Sakly wrote:
May 13th, 2024, 1:29 am
For a 2k you are better off with a good stamina and less strength.
I think the rise in popularity in Erg'ing in CrossFit has pushed the "strength over stamina" approach. Without going in to the science, 2k is predominantly an "aerobic dominant" distance, there is no getting away from it. Granted the odd outlier will go sub 6 ie James Hall, but for the majority, we rely on a good engine and moving quickly!
33 6'2 93kg
1min 362m 500m 1:26 2k 6:31 5k 17:52

Sakly
Half Marathon Poster
Posts: 2833
Joined: January 13th, 2022, 10:49 am

Re: 1k pace for a 7min 2K?

Post by Sakly » May 13th, 2024, 6:26 am

alex9026 wrote:
May 13th, 2024, 6:11 am
Sakly wrote:
May 13th, 2024, 1:29 am
For a 2k you are better off with a good stamina and less strength.
I think the rise in popularity in Erg'ing in CrossFit has pushed the "strength over stamina" approach. Without going in to the science, 2k is predominantly an "aerobic dominant" distance, there is no getting away from it. Granted the odd outlier will go sub 6 ie James Hall, but for the majority, we rely on a good engine and moving quickly!
Absolutely.
In Crossfit often short intervals are incorporated, these can be powered through, then you get plenty of rest for this movement (sure, other stuff comes around, CF workouts are no joke!) and you can get through all of them with fight mode.
A continuous 2k is another story. The example above, my training partner and I, shows it clearly. Even if we perform 8x500m intervals, he is dying halfway with decreasing pace, beeing already 6-7s slower than me. Same applies for other exercises, he can get much higher peak performance, but has a huge drop, when it gets to higher rep ranges and metcon stuff. Different kind of muscle conditioning and CVS.
Male - '80 - 82kg - 177cm - Start rowErg Jan 2022
1': 355m
4': 1217m
30'r20: 8068m
30': 8,283m
60': 16,222m
100m: 0:16.1
500m: 1:27.1
1k: 3:07.8
2k: 6:37.1
5k: 17:39.6
6k: 21:15.3
10k: 36:01.5
HM: 1:18:40.1
FM: 2:52:32.6
My log

Cyclingman1
10k Poster
Posts: 1777
Joined: February 7th, 2012, 6:23 pm
Location: Gainesville, Ga

Re: 1k pace for a 7min 2K?

Post by Cyclingman1 » May 13th, 2024, 4:06 pm

Got to give CrossFit its due. CrossFit gyms have conservatively brought 250,000 C2 ergs into the world's exercise space. Concept 2 rowing would in all actuality be nowhere without the impact of Crossfit.

But regarding the influence of CrossFit on C2 rowing itself. The emphasis on short, calorie based, balls to the rowing really distorts the whole rowing thing. I go to a standard gym that has a good many Crossfitters in attendance. The craziness in form has to be seen to believed. I've never seen so much chain slapping from violent up and down movements of the handle ever.

But the idea of not doing short intervals is really counterproductive. Interval training is well established in all endurance activities. I've used shorter type intervals in running, cycling, and rowing with good results. The training effects of intervals cannot be duplicated with only longer rows. Someone not having done them will have to experiment with distance, number, pace, SPM, etc. Quality supersedes quantity. Intervals are not to be overall exhausting. Start slow, build up.
JimG, Gainesville, Ga, 78, 76", 205lb. PBs:
66-69: .5,1,2,5,6,10K: 1:30.8 3:14.1 6:40.7 17:34.0 21:18.1 36:21.7 30;60;HM: 8337 16237 1:20:25
70-78: .5,1,2,5,6,10K: 1:32.7 3:19.5 6:58.1 17:55.3 21:32.6 36:41.9 30;60;HM: 8214 15353 1:23:02.5

Sakly
Half Marathon Poster
Posts: 2833
Joined: January 13th, 2022, 10:49 am

Re: 1k pace for a 7min 2K?

Post by Sakly » May 14th, 2024, 12:21 am

Cyclingman1 wrote:
May 13th, 2024, 4:06 pm
Got to give CrossFit its due. CrossFit gyms have conservatively brought 250,000 C2 ergs into the world's exercise space. Concept 2 rowing would in all actuality be nowhere without the impact of Crossfit.

But regarding the influence of CrossFit on C2 rowing itself. The emphasis on short, calorie based, balls to the rowing really distorts the whole rowing thing. I go to a standard gym that has a good many Crossfitters in attendance. The craziness in form has to be seen to believed. I've never seen so much chain slapping from violent up and down movements of the handle ever.

But the idea of not doing short intervals is really counterproductive. Interval training is well established in all endurance activities. I've used shorter type intervals in running, cycling, and rowing with good results. The training effects of intervals cannot be duplicated with only longer rows. Someone not having done them will have to experiment with distance, number, pace, SPM, etc. Quality supersedes quantity. Intervals are not to be overall exhausting. Start slow, build up.
Sure, that's a thing. Hyrox is also something which will do some good for rowing, I assume.
I agree to form, saw it by myself :lol:
Intervals are always an important backbone of training. Has anyone written something different?
Male - '80 - 82kg - 177cm - Start rowErg Jan 2022
1': 355m
4': 1217m
30'r20: 8068m
30': 8,283m
60': 16,222m
100m: 0:16.1
500m: 1:27.1
1k: 3:07.8
2k: 6:37.1
5k: 17:39.6
6k: 21:15.3
10k: 36:01.5
HM: 1:18:40.1
FM: 2:52:32.6
My log

Cyclingman1
10k Poster
Posts: 1777
Joined: February 7th, 2012, 6:23 pm
Location: Gainesville, Ga

Re: 1k pace for a 7min 2K?

Post by Cyclingman1 » May 14th, 2024, 10:52 am

Sakly wrote:
May 14th, 2024, 12:21 am
Has anyone written something different?
Yeah, the OP.
JimG, Gainesville, Ga, 78, 76", 205lb. PBs:
66-69: .5,1,2,5,6,10K: 1:30.8 3:14.1 6:40.7 17:34.0 21:18.1 36:21.7 30;60;HM: 8337 16237 1:20:25
70-78: .5,1,2,5,6,10K: 1:32.7 3:19.5 6:58.1 17:55.3 21:32.6 36:41.9 30;60;HM: 8214 15353 1:23:02.5

Sakly
Half Marathon Poster
Posts: 2833
Joined: January 13th, 2022, 10:49 am

Re: 1k pace for a 7min 2K?

Post by Sakly » May 14th, 2024, 11:22 am

Cyclingman1 wrote:
May 14th, 2024, 10:52 am
Sakly wrote:
May 14th, 2024, 12:21 am
Has anyone written something different?
Yeah, the OP.
Really? For me it seems as he already agreed to incorporate intervals into his schedule more often on site no. 1.
Male - '80 - 82kg - 177cm - Start rowErg Jan 2022
1': 355m
4': 1217m
30'r20: 8068m
30': 8,283m
60': 16,222m
100m: 0:16.1
500m: 1:27.1
1k: 3:07.8
2k: 6:37.1
5k: 17:39.6
6k: 21:15.3
10k: 36:01.5
HM: 1:18:40.1
FM: 2:52:32.6
My log

cflrules
Paddler
Posts: 46
Joined: November 17th, 2010, 4:01 pm

Re: 1k pace for a 7min 2K?

Post by cflrules » May 14th, 2024, 1:15 pm

My current 2k is 6:52, with the 1k being 3:15.

Completely different test IMO, the 2k is nasty.
47 years old - 6'0" 205lbs.
2k - 6:51.8 March '23
6k - 22:08.6 April '23

Cyclingman1
10k Poster
Posts: 1777
Joined: February 7th, 2012, 6:23 pm
Location: Gainesville, Ga

Re: 1k pace for a 7min 2K?

Post by Cyclingman1 » May 14th, 2024, 7:48 pm

One wonders how it is that a relative newcomer to erging with at best modest results feels compelled to issue snarky comment to one with considerable experience and accomplishments across the endurance sports spectrum, including currently holding 21 world rowing records, leading three nonathlons in a row, and in the top six of the latest compiled P/AR standings and knows a quite a bit about the entire subject of training. Don't need it.
JimG, Gainesville, Ga, 78, 76", 205lb. PBs:
66-69: .5,1,2,5,6,10K: 1:30.8 3:14.1 6:40.7 17:34.0 21:18.1 36:21.7 30;60;HM: 8337 16237 1:20:25
70-78: .5,1,2,5,6,10K: 1:32.7 3:19.5 6:58.1 17:55.3 21:32.6 36:41.9 30;60;HM: 8214 15353 1:23:02.5

Sakly
Half Marathon Poster
Posts: 2833
Joined: January 13th, 2022, 10:49 am

Re: 1k pace for a 7min 2K?

Post by Sakly » May 14th, 2024, 11:29 pm

Cyclingman1 wrote:
May 14th, 2024, 7:48 pm
One wonders how it is that a relative newcomer to erging with at best modest results feels compelled to issue snarky comment to one with considerable experience and accomplishments across the endurance sports spectrum, including currently holding 21 world rowing records, leading three nonathlons in a row, and in the top six of the latest compiled P/AR standings and knows a quite a bit about the entire subject of training. Don't need it.
Was this related to my answer(s)?
If so, I cannot find anything wrong or snarky in my comments. At least it shouldn't be interpreted this way, as it wasn't the intention at all. :?
Male - '80 - 82kg - 177cm - Start rowErg Jan 2022
1': 355m
4': 1217m
30'r20: 8068m
30': 8,283m
60': 16,222m
100m: 0:16.1
500m: 1:27.1
1k: 3:07.8
2k: 6:37.1
5k: 17:39.6
6k: 21:15.3
10k: 36:01.5
HM: 1:18:40.1
FM: 2:52:32.6
My log

robhely
1k Poster
Posts: 180
Joined: March 28th, 2023, 5:40 pm

Re: 1k pace for a 7min 2K?

Post by robhely » May 15th, 2024, 2:56 am

Cyclingman1 wrote:
May 13th, 2024, 4:06 pm
The craziness in form has to be seen to believed. I've never seen so much chain slapping from violent up and down movements of the handle ever.

But the idea of not doing short intervals is really counterproductive. Interval training is well established in all endurance activities. I've used shorter type intervals in running, cycling, and rowing with good results. The training effects of intervals cannot be duplicated with only longer rows. Someone not having done them will have to experiment with distance, number, pace, SPM, etc. Quality supersedes quantity. Intervals are not to be overall exhausting. Start slow, build up.
At my gym, I see the same kind of craziness in form on the ergs. It's hard to watch, most people set the drag to 10, don't use any body swing and jerk the chain at all kinds of angles while rollercoastering the handle up over their knees.

I'm all for incorporating more interval work into my training; longer and shorter intervals included to mix it up. I recognise that there is no way I can improve my 2k time with only long UT2 sessions.
M/53/179cm/74.8kg
started rowing late 2022

PBs
1k: 3:26.2
2k: 7:09.9
5k: 18:46.0
30min: 7,847m
10k: 38:57.0
60min: 15,060m
HM: 1:26:14.1

RWAGR
2k Poster
Posts: 307
Joined: May 26th, 2016, 8:24 am
Location: Potomac, MD, USA

Re: 1k pace for a 7min 2K?

Post by RWAGR » May 15th, 2024, 4:57 am

Sakly wrote:
May 14th, 2024, 11:29 pm
Cyclingman1 wrote:
May 14th, 2024, 7:48 pm
One wonders how it is that a relative newcomer to erging with at best modest results feels compelled to issue snarky comment to one with considerable experience and accomplishments across the endurance sports spectrum, including currently holding 21 world rowing records, leading three nonathlons in a row, and in the top six of the latest compiled P/AR standings and knows a quite a bit about the entire subject of training. Don't need it.
Was this related to my answer(s)?
If so, I cannot find anything wrong or snarky in my comments. At least it shouldn't be interpreted this way, as it wasn't the intention at all. :?
Sascha bro don't worry about. Nothing wrong in anything you said. You're a great guy and you're always helping people on here. Some people are just not nice and usually it means they have something going on in life- just hope for their sake they sort it out and ignore them until they do.
Rob, 40, 6'1", 188 lbs. Potomac, MD, USA (albeit English-Australian originally).

2k: 6:45.4 (2023)
5k: 17:56.3 (2023)
30': 8,182 (2024)
10k: 36:49.9 (2024)
60’: 15,967 (2024)
HM: 1:20:27.4 (2024)
FM: 2:48:21.4 (2024)
100k: 7:43:28.2 (2024)

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