Hyperventilating on the last leg of Sprint Intervals?

[Mlevison]

I can't quite tell, if I'm just too eager, have a bad habit or worse. I'm following Pete's plan. (Taking 50% longer than Pete intended). Several times in recent weeks, in trying to push my Sprint sessions I hyperventilate on my last interval. In some cases I can't finish.

Example last night I had 4x1000m/3min rest planned. My last 5x800 average was 2:02.4/500m.'

So my plan for 4x1000/m was 2:04 -> 03 -> 02 -> 1:59. (I wanted to row my first sub 2:00 min 1000m). I'm not as even as some people here. So my actual paces were 2:03.4, 2:02.1 and 2:01.8. In the last rest interval my heart rate dropped to 95bpm. I stuck my 1:59 plan for the last 1000m. For the first 500m, I was doing ~1:57. I tried slowing down a bit, however it was too late. With 150 m left, I couldn't keep going. Heart rate was ~165. Max ever recorded is 169.

One of my work colleagues claims I'm risk of heart attack. (Seems unlikely to me).

More importantly. In terms of training
- Is this ok? Too ambitious? ...

[MPx]

Too hard to call the risks on the data presented. It comes down to age, health, and how well trained you are. If you're generally fit and active and are maybe coming to erging from other sports then IMO there's no problem with pushing your HR close or to Max on a regular (but maybe infrequent!) basis - I've been doing so a couple of times a week for decades. If you have spent years as a couch potato - but have recently made the excellent choice to get more active and have just started erging then you probably need to be a bit more cautious. Andrew Marr was the famous case of no exercise for years then going all out on a rower for some comptitive thing and is still suffering the consequences.

On the straight facts presented. Most (all?) of us have had the odd hard interval session where we've been unable to finish at planned pace - but in fact this is more often mental rather than physical buffers being hit. The Pete pacing suggestion to maintain confidence in finishing is to work off previous rounds using last time's average which you know you've already done for all but the last interval but then try to make the last faster - hence ratcheting down the avg for next time. That's OK for a few rounds but eventually you won't be able to go any lower.
If this was your first 4x1k then you tried a brave and strong neg split. The jump down to 1:59 from 2:02 was just too big a jump on this occasion but you were still close to it. I'd suggest next time try 3x 2:02 and 2:01 for the last - you can always accelerate over the last 300 if you're finding it easy.

[jamesg]

You could use a different metric: Watts/Rating.

Keep it high but doable in all work, as foreseen in the major training plans, Interactive and Wolverine. But keep the rating low.

That way you train only what you need: a good stroke and the endurance to use it.

[Dangerscouse]

I agree with Mike (MPx), so if you could give us more details it will be helpful?

I do think that the 1:57 pace could have been the reason you suffered. If you've never done a sub 2:00 1k, 500m+ @ 1:57, once the adrenaline has gone, will really hurt.

We've all done it, and will all continue to sometimes still do it, but usually* it doesn't mean anything to be worried about.

* I say usually, but I'm not a medical expert in any way whatsoever so don't rely on this.

[p_b82]

again no medical advice here, but it sounds like you just pushed yourself too hard into the anaerobic and built up too much oxygen debt.

There's quite a big difference in power needed for your splits: 2:04 is ~180W 1:57 is ~220w, only 7s per split but 40w difference.

I regularly see my HR up near it's observed max - not every session as I don't push myself that hard every time, but probably once or twice a week on "normal" 3 session a week schedule I'll see it over 180 (with observed max of 191). Mostly because I tend to finish of my rows with a bit of a push into anaerobic as I just do not get on well with intervals so that's a sorta compromise I've found works for me.

[Mlevison]

It's the start of work day, I won't be able to reply in detail to all.

Forgive not sure what details I should have supplied. Age 56. Physical condition - I'm active. I've been doing Pete's Plan for ~8 mths, even though I've only complete 20 weeks of it so far. (Some weeks, I just don't get 3 sets in) Normally when I see a repeat session, I can usually better it 1.5-2secs per 500m if I'm willing to really push it at the end.

Mike (@MPx) - It's reassuring to know that everyone does this from time to time, so I'm not alone. 2:02 -> 1:59 is a big jump, I naively assumed a fail would be 2:01 and not a halt.

@Jamesg Watts/Rating ??? I think I might need to look into this. Where would I find more and also Interactive and Wolverine?

@Dangercourse further reassurance

@p_b82 more reassurance and logic around power output. I must learn more about power.

I suspect I need to work reducing my stroke rate.

For fun I attempted to regrow it last night. Results 2:03, 2:02.2, 2:01.8 and 1:59.8. Too bad a bug in ErgData isn't displaying the results

[jamesg]

http://3.8.144.21/training/interactive

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q ... i=89978449

[KeithT]

So, if you you accomplished goal then the first try just hit you hard and/or just wasn't your day. We all have learned to suffer on the rower and we have HDs as well. It's all part of the learning process to me. Now as other have said - no medical advice - if you get to feeling like it's something more than just hard effort you need to watch. The 4x1K is mine (and others) hardest workout to hit goals, it's a tough one.

[iain]

You don't explain what you mean by "hyperventilating". On TR intervals it is extremely unlikely that you hyperventilated, you were probably in oxygen debt (hypoventilating)! Do you mean that you started to breath out of time with your stroke? This is something I used to do and it generally cost me 2-3S/split minimum and required slowing down or stopping. I found the trick was to force 2 breaths per stroke deeply coordinated from after the first 3 quick strokes, I think the issue was that as an asthmatic I struggle to breath fast and deep and extended the anaerobic start of the interval (when you can row at >VO2 Max by increasing oxygen debt) until I was forced to breath more and hence the collapse.

On PP I recommend starting even the last interval slower than you believe you can average and accelerating. After the improvements decrease you may even find maintaining target tough at first, but as the end approaches we can all find a bit more by digging deeper into the anaerobic, usually by raising the rating. If you intend to stick to a pace based plan, you need to develop the consistency to maintain close to target pace. That inevitably means slowing a bit after getting "up" to pace. Paying attention to your stroke helps as consistent strokes and a good rhythm are the key. 2S variation in pace will limit how many PP cycles you can manage with consistent improvement.

Best of luck

Iain

[Mlevison]

@Jamesg - IP address - hardcore. Curiously that page doesn't work in that it won't accept my email address. Is that program the same as: https://www.concept2.co.uk/files/pdf/us ... _Guide.pdf

@KeithT 1) It's reassuring to hear this is normal. The problem with 0 rowing experience and knowledge, I never know if I'm doing the right thing or not. Frankly I don't even know if I'm achieving a good degree of fitness

@Iain Hyperventilating == I was gasping for breath and couldn't continue rowing, it took more than a minute to recover. I don't know enough to time my rowing to my breathing.

I appreciate the advice to start the last interval slower and then pickup the pace. Effectively, I think that is what I did intuitively last night. I also agree I've much to learn about steady power, pace etc.

[Ombrax]

I don't know enough to time my rowing to my breathing.

In that case, it's something to work on consciously, so you can be sure that you're doing it in the way that's best for you.

Most (but not all) rowers will switch from one breath per stroke to two as the pace increases. One per stroke is straightforward, with the exhalation done on the drive. See the link below for a bit more on 2 / stroke. You can also search the forum for threads with "breathing" in the subject line, there are several.

https://www.concept2.com/indoor-rowers/ ... techniques

Good Luck

[Dangerscouse]

Hyperventilating == I was gasping for breath and couldn't continue rowing, it took more than a minute to recover. I don't know enough to time my rowing to my breathing.

You may benefit from trying to learn to breathe efficiently ie from your diaphragm rather than your belly. It's a common mistake and you can quickly build up an oxygen debt which then leads to panic and inevitably very poor breathing technique. Do you breathe through your mouth more than your nose?

To start with you need to just concentrate on your breathing with each stroke, so it becomes ingrained and natural. If you try to breathe at the wrong moments in the stroke it will be detrimental to the whole foundation of your efforts.