Concept2 Forum

I am a 75-year-old man. I kind of rotate between three exercise machines -- a recumbent bike, a treadmill, and a Concept 2. On each machine I aim for high UT1 or low AT heart rates. The duration is about 40 minutes of long intervals. My basic erg exercise is a 6x4x2 at about 120 -125 watts, 27 SPM for the 4-minute legs. Each session feels about the same -- about as much as I can do.

I tried doing some low steady state sessions but I keep upping my intensity and stroke rate until I end up back in AT. I'm hooked on the feeling of achievement. How do you keep motivated to stay in UT2?

I have the same problem, and tend to "race my workouts" which I know is bad.

I can think of at least two reasons to consider backing off on the pace: 1) To allow you to do longer workouts which are important in building your aerobic "base" and 2) UT2 workouts (so I hear) are a critical part of the training for much shorter, faster pieces, say a very hard 2k.

Finally, I know that years ago, when I was cycling a lot and doing much longer workouts than my current rowing workouts, but at lower average heart rates, I was much faster when I did row, even though I wasn't rowing nearly as often as I do these days, (without the cycling)

In fact, a long time ago I started a thread like this one, with a subject line something like "Please help me row slower." (or something similar)

mjhatten wrote: ↑

February 1st, 2024, 12:08 am

I tried doing some low steady state sessions but I keep upping my intensity and stroke rate until I end up back in AT. I'm hooked on the feeling of achievement. How do you keep motivated to stay in UT2?

It is difficult to keep one's ego in its cage for most of us. many people I know put on a movie or something similar, and be distracted by it.

I always remind myself, 'do what you should, not what you could'.

If you use a HR monitor try to achieve a lower HR, within reason as there's clearly a tipping point when it becomes too easy.

I find that a steady state session has to be quite long, although this is relative, as you need to feel there's some benefit to it. If it's the same distance/ duration as your harder work it will always be a struggle to keep a lid on your ego

If you don't want to slow down, why ask how? You can clearly do what you do and it looks good enough to keep you pretty fit. Do you have some other goals you've not mentioned? Better scores at particular distances? Longer duration? Slowing down won't have any benefit on its own, it just allows you to recover sufficiently to spend a lot more time on the erg - and its the extra hours on the erg that can potentially produce the benefits. If you're not aiming to commit the extra time, I'd suggest that you don't slow down.

I don't see the problem. So long as you're not overtraining, do whatever pace you like.

Regimented UT2 is an artifact of "polarized training" which is optimal for elite athletes who spend tens of hours training per week. I haven't seen much evidence that it is optimal for you and me, who want to get the most health (or performance) benefit from a smaller number of hours.

The best exercise is the exercise you do. And the best way to ensure you do it is to choose a pace you enjoy. Some days I feel like challenging myself; some days not. I just go with that.

gvcormac wrote: ↑

February 1st, 2024, 9:54 am

Regimented UT2 is an artifact of "polarized training" which is optimal for elite athletes who spend tens of hours training per week. I haven't seen much evidence that it is optimal for you and me, who want to get the most health (or performance) benefit from a smaller number of hours.

Although I agree that Zone 2 training is useless when people just train one or two hours a week, I saw Dr. san Milan in a recent GCN video explain that he himself also uses the same approach for his very limited time on the bike.

gvcormac wrote: ↑

February 1st, 2024, 9:54 am

The best exercise is the exercise you do. And the best way to ensure you do it is to choose a pace you enjoy. Some days I feel like challenging myself; some days not. I just go with that.

I totally agree. When there are no signs of overtraining (like soar knees or elbows), going all out is fun. But some moderation might be smart when training more often: https://youtu.be/Y6U728AZnV0

How do you keep motivated to stay in UT2?

By keeping the rate low (18-20) but the work high, so that there can still be training/technique gains or at least maintenance.

At 75y I'd guess borderline UT2-1 at rate 20 would be up to 2W/kg.

I think with endurance sports generally, there's much to be said for a 'hard day,' 'easy day' approach. I know some people can seemingly go eyeballs out everyday, and, when younger, I did something similar myself with running and cycling.

I'm now 63 (lightweight) and currently do about 55 - 60k a week on the erg, alternating 10k UT2 sessions with faster work over 5 - 7k (continuous and intervals) on the 'hard' days. I do other exercise in addition to erging - a lot of hiking and a bit of strength and stretching work. The UT2 enables me to recover (I'm not a particularly physically robust individual) and develop a better technique. There are some who claim that less than 90 - 120 minutes of UT2 is valueless. I can't agree with that.

hikeplusrow wrote: ↑

February 5th, 2024, 10:30 am

I think with endurance sports generally, there's much to be said for a 'hard day,' 'easy day' approach. I know some people can seemingly go eyeballs out everyday, and, when younger, I did something similar myself with running and cycling.

I'm now 63 (lightweight) and currently do about 55 - 60k a week on the erg, alternating 10k UT2 sessions with faster work over 5 - 7k (continuous and intervals) on the 'hard' days. I do other exercise in addition to erging - a lot of hiking and a bit of strength and stretching work. The UT2 enables me to recover (I'm not a particularly physically robust individual) and develop a better technique. There are some who claim that less than 90 - 120 minutes of UT2 is valueless. I can't agree with that.

Absolutely not agreeing to this as well. If this would be the case, I should not have made any gains during the last two years, as my majority of rowing workouts were shorter than that

Sakly wrote: ↑

February 5th, 2024, 10:44 am

hikeplusrow wrote: ↑

February 5th, 2024, 10:30 am

I think with endurance sports generally, there's much to be said for a 'hard day,' 'easy day' approach. I know some people can seemingly go eyeballs out everyday, and, when younger, I did something similar myself with running and cycling.

I'm now 63 (lightweight) and currently do about 55 - 60k a week on the erg, alternating 10k UT2 sessions with faster work over 5 - 7k (continuous and intervals) on the 'hard' days. I do other exercise in addition to erging - a lot of hiking and a bit of strength and stretching work. The UT2 enables me to recover (I'm not a particularly physically robust individual) and develop a better technique. There are some who claim that less than 90 - 120 minutes of UT2 is valueless. I can't agree with that.

Absolutely not agreeing to this as well. If this would be the case, I should not have made any gains during the last two years, as my majority of rowing workouts were shorter than that

My heart sank when I first read this as I thought you were disagreeing with the entire post. I then spotted that it was just the bit in bold

hikeplusrow wrote: ↑

February 5th, 2024, 10:57 am

Sakly wrote: ↑

February 5th, 2024, 10:44 am

hikeplusrow wrote: ↑

February 5th, 2024, 10:30 am

I think with endurance sports generally, there's much to be said for a 'hard day,' 'easy day' approach. I know some people can seemingly go eyeballs out everyday, and, when younger, I did something similar myself with running and cycling.

I'm now 63 (lightweight) and currently do about 55 - 60k a week on the erg, alternating 10k UT2 sessions with faster work over 5 - 7k (continuous and intervals) on the 'hard' days. I do other exercise in addition to erging - a lot of hiking and a bit of strength and stretching work. The UT2 enables me to recover (I'm not a particularly physically robust individual) and develop a better technique. There are some who claim that less than 90 - 120 minutes of UT2 is valueless. I can't agree with that.

Absolutely not agreeing to this as well. If this would be the case, I should not have made any gains during the last two years, as my majority of rowing workouts were shorter than that

My heart sank when I first read this as I thought you were disagreeing with the entire post. I then spotted that it was just the bit in bold

Hehe
I think the metabolic effects in the body are much more complex and cannot be shrinked to some fixed thresholds defined being useful above or useless below.

mjhatten wrote: ↑

February 1st, 2024, 12:08 am

How do you keep motivated to stay in UT2?

If you've figured out your heart rates for the zones, then what works for me on the longer, slower days is to keep my HR at or below the target for the workout. With HR "creep", this means I have to slow down as the workout progresses because HR slowly increases if I keep the same pace.

Otherwise, like others have said, use distractions or mental "games" with the monitor (steady, very low stroke rate, meters per stroke, etc.) to keep the workout where you want.

hikeplusrow wrote: ↑

February 5th, 2024, 10:30 am

There are some who claim that less than 90 - 120 minutes of UT2 is valueless. I can't agree with that.

As I always bang on about, and Sascha mentions above, there is far too much instinct to make reductive decisions / opinions that become binary: this is good, that's bad.

Humans are far too robust to neatly fit into specific boxes, but modern society want an off the shelf 'one size fits all' approach to things: if you do this, you'll definitely get this.

Like a huge amount of scientific hypothesis you will probably find a wealth of evidence to the contrary.

I personally think that it's probably beneficial for everyone to do as much as they can do, but it's certainly not valueless to do less than 90 mins.

Cyclist2 wrote: ↑

February 5th, 2024, 12:21 pm

mjhatten wrote: ↑

February 1st, 2024, 12:08 am

How do you keep motivated to stay in UT2?

If you've figured out your heart rates for the zones, then what works for me on the longer, slower days is to keep my HR at or below the target for the workout. With HR "creep", this means I have to slow down as the workout progresses because HR slowly increases if I keep the same pace.

Otherwise, like others have said, use distractions or mental "games" with the monitor (steady, very low stroke rate, meters per stroke, etc.) to keep the workout where you want.

Someone else on here was saying that, when they did long steady state, they simply chose a pace that was sufficiently slow to ensure negligible drift even over very extended periods. That sounds like a plan too.

I must say that, for all my ad nauseam promotion of watts as a primary metric, I'm now thinking more in terms of matching watts to heart rate. Feel free to chuckle or say "Ha ha, I told you so!"