Concept2 Forum

Good Morning - quick question about SS. I am training for a 2k in March - last test was 7:03. Hoping for sub 7 this time. Everything I read says SS certainly helps long term when incorporated in the training.

My max heart rate is about 170-175bpm. I'll be doing some 60 minute pieces - last one was 140bpm, 22s/m, and a 2:08 split. Comfortable, solid row. Are these numbers effective or should I slow things down a bit? Obviously want to make sure the work on the erg is maximizing end results.

Appreciate any advice!

cflrules wrote: ↑

January 19th, 2024, 1:35 pm

Good Morning - quick question about SS. I am training for a 2k in March - last test was 7:03. Hoping for sub 7 this time. Everything I read says SS certainly helps long term when incorporated in the training.

My max heart rate is about 170-175bpm. I'll be doing some 60 minute pieces - last one was 140bpm, 22s/m, and a 2:08 split. Comfortable, solid row. Are these numbers effective or should I slow things down a bit? Obviously want to make sure the work on the erg is maximizing end results.

Appreciate any advice!

I don't really do heart rate on any substantive level, but I think 7.03 is about 295 watts. 45 - 60% of this will be your SS (UT2) zone. 60% is 177 watts. Please check figures for accuracy.

Yes, it was 296 watts on the 7:03.

I will aim for 160-175 watts.

Thank you!

cflrules wrote: ↑

January 19th, 2024, 1:35 pm

My max heart rate is about 170-175bpm. I'll be doing some 60 minute pieces - last one was 140bpm, 22s/m, and a 2:08 split. Comfortable, solid row. Are these numbers effective or should I slow things down a bit? Obviously want to make sure the work on the erg is maximizing end results.

When aiming for Steady State zone 2, your heartrate should stay below roughly 70% max HR, which is around 120 bpm for you. Then, the 140 bpm might be too high for that kind of training.

cflrules wrote: ↑

January 19th, 2024, 1:35 pm

Good Morning - quick question about SS. I am training for a 2k in March - last test was 7:03. Hoping for sub 7 this time. Everything I read says SS certainly helps long term when incorporated in the training.

My max heart rate is about 170-175bpm. I'll be doing some 60 minute pieces - last one was 140bpm, 22s/m, and a 2:08 split. Comfortable, solid row. Are these numbers effective or should I slow things down a bit? Obviously want to make sure the work on the erg is maximizing end results.

Appreciate any advice!

Welcome to the forum.

The main thing that stands out to me is that you've got more or less two months, at the most, until your 2k, and steady state takes many months to really have any notable impact.

If I was you, I'd do some sessions at the watts mentioned above (no idea what pace that is), but I'd also do sessions at your 2:08 pace, along with, and these are important, shorter sharper intervals e.g. 8 x 500m; 5 x 750m; 4 x 1000m.

Try and incorporate all these different types of sessions each week, but always pay attention to your recovery, and don't worry if you swap one out. I'd also recommend occasionally doing sessions like 5k, 6k, 8k, etc, at a hard pace just to get you used the effort.

cflrules wrote: ↑

January 19th, 2024, 1:35 pm

Good Morning - quick question about SS. I am training for a 2k in March - last test was 7:03. Hoping for sub 7 this time. Everything I read says SS certainly helps long term when incorporated in the training.

My max heart rate is about 170-175bpm. I'll be doing some 60 minute pieces - last one was 140bpm, 22s/m, and a 2:08 split. Comfortable, solid row. Are these numbers effective or should I slow things down a bit? Obviously want to make sure the work on the erg is maximizing end results.

Appreciate any advice!

It all depends on how many sessions you are doing per week. If you are doing 3 or 4 sessions per week it's hardly worth doing "steady state" you will find many opinions about this and all I will say is, you don't get anywhere without hard work.

Dangerscouse wrote: ↑

January 19th, 2024, 5:26 pm

The main thing that stands out to me is that you've got more or less two months, at the most, until your 2k, and steady state takes many months to really have any notable impact.

Good point, completely agree with this.

nick rockliff wrote: ↑

January 19th, 2024, 5:43 pm

It all depends on how many sessions you are doing per week. If you are doing 3 or 4 sessions per week it's hardly worth doing "steady state"

I have to agree with you on this one.

nick rockliff wrote: ↑

January 19th, 2024, 5:43 pm

all I will say is, you don't get anywhere without hard work.

I differ in opinion here. In essence you say "No pain no gain", which isn't that effective in endurance training in the long run. Steady state work aims to train the slow twitch muscle fibres, which isn't as intense as high intensity trainings (aimed at fast twitch fibres), but important for long term endurance. This is because the slow twitch muscle fibres don't get fatigued as fast and can burn ATP as fuel, which prevents ATP buildup. So in the long run, no pain leads to gain as well.

cflrules wrote: ↑

January 19th, 2024, 1:35 pm

Good Morning - quick question about SS.

There's no such thing, as you will see.

I am training for a 2k in March - last test was 7:03. Hoping for sub 7 this time... I'll be doing some 60 minute pieces - last one was 140bpm, 22s/m, and a 2:08 split. Comfortable, solid row. Are these numbers effective or should I slow things down a bit? Obviously want to make sure the work on the erg is maximizing end results. Appreciate any advice!

My advice when training is to go faster, not slower. Keep it relatively comfortable, but keep pushing in a systematic, progressive way. For reference, I've done a few 2Ks in training over the past couple weeks in 6:58-6:59 (would shoot for 6:54 if I were racing). Just today I did 15K @ 2:02.0, 24spm and have recently done 26K at 2:02.3. I'm working to get that down to 2:00 or so. I never monitor heart rate. My experience is, as the long steady rows get faster, so do the 2Ks (or maybe it's the other way around - as the 2Ks get faster, so do the long steady rows).

JaapvanE wrote: ↑

January 19th, 2024, 6:24 pm

nick rockliff wrote: ↑

January 19th, 2024, 5:43 pm

all I will say is, you don't get anywhere without hard work.

I differ in opinion here. In essence you say "No pain no gain", which isn't that effective in endurance training in the long run. Steady state work aims to train the slow twitch muscle fibres, which isn't as intense as high intensity trainings (aimed at fast twitch fibres), but important for long term endurance. This is because the slow twitch muscle fibres don't get fatigued as fast and can burn ATP as fuel, which prevents ATP buildup. So in the long run, no pain leads to gain as well.

I just can't get into another discussion about what "pain" is or the difference between "easy" and "hard", but these things mean different things to different people. For me, training isn't easy or painless, but it's manageable. Muscle fibers have properties across a broad spectrum, and "slow" and "fast" twitch is an oversimplified false dichotomy. I assume rather than "ATP" you mean "lactate", but that's another topic that gets oversimplified (or rather, it's role in fatigue and recovery, which are complex and affected by many, many factors).

For 2k prep, one pill makes ya faster (500m) and one makes ya last er (5,6,10k).

JaapvanE wrote: ↑

January 19th, 2024, 6:24 pm

Dangerscouse wrote: ↑

January 19th, 2024, 5:26 pm

The main thing that stands out to me is that you've got more or less two months, at the most, until your 2k, and steady state takes many months to really have any notable impact.

Good point, completely agree with this.

nick rockliff wrote: ↑

January 19th, 2024, 5:43 pm

It all depends on how many sessions you are doing per week. If you are doing 3 or 4 sessions per week it's hardly worth doing "steady state"

I have to agree with you on this one.

nick rockliff wrote: ↑

January 19th, 2024, 5:43 pm

all I will say is, you don't get anywhere without hard work.

I differ in opinion here. In essence you say "No pain no gain", which isn't that effective in endurance training in the long run. Steady state work aims to train the slow twitch muscle fibres, which isn't as intense as high intensity trainings (aimed at fast twitch fibres), but important for long term endurance. This is because the slow twitch muscle fibres don't get fatigued as fast and can burn ATP as fuel, which prevents ATP buildup. So in the long run, no pain leads to gain as well.

I didn't say anything like no pain no gain so please don't miss quote people.

My training and achievements on the erg over the last 20 years are an open book. Traing sessions are all posted on this site. I have nothing to prove to any one.

If I want to get faster, I need a pretty heavy dose of shorter, sharper sessions. It might be partly that I have to get acclimated to the discomfort of hard efforts but, at my amateur level of volume, I have to push the pace regularly to improve. The LSD (80/20) type of training just does not make me faster. Evidence be damned .

OP, Pete Marston’s “lunchtime” 2k prep (4-5 sesh per wk for 3 week cycle, 1 speed interval, 1 speed endurance interval, and 1 moderately-paced continuous 5-10k workout per week) is a well-known, short term “performance peaking” program. I have heard of outliers doing Pete Plan year round but most who followed it agree that 3 to 4 cycles (9-12 wks) can produce appreciable improvement of 2k average power over a very short runup to comp. My experience with it: crash course performance gains level out and plateau verrrry quickly so plenty of time post-comp to do 100% LIT simply because you need the rest. NB: Wolverine Ls 1, 2, and 3 will work as well if you prefer.

I am training for a 2k in March

You could do the last 8 weeks of any plan here:
http://3.8.144.21/training/interactive
Or just do the C2 WODs; they're mostly speed.

last one was 140bpm, 22s/m, and a 2:08 split.

This is 167W and Work = 167/22 = 7.6W-min per stroke. In the 2k you'll need to pull a bit harder, so suggest you try it. 200W at 20 could be a good test.

47 years old - 6'0" 225lbs.

100kg at 1.83 indicates BMI 30, somewhat high for oarsmen.

cflrules wrote: ↑

January 19th, 2024, 1:35 pm

Good Morning - quick question about SS... I'll be doing some 60 minute pieces

Dangerscouse wrote: ↑

January 19th, 2024, 5:26 pm

I'd also do sessions at your 2:08 pace, along with, and these are important, shorter sharper intervals e.g. 8 x 500m; 5 x 750m; 4 x 1000m.

mromero680 wrote: ↑

January 20th, 2024, 11:07 am

If I want to get faster, I need a pretty heavy dose of shorter, sharper sessions.

jackarabit wrote: ↑

January 20th, 2024, 3:22 pm

1 speed interval, 1 speed endurance interval, and 1 moderately-paced continuous 5-10k workout per week

jamesg wrote: ↑

January 20th, 2024, 5:49 pm

Or just do the C2 WODs; they're mostly speed.

Where did he say he wasn't doing any speed work? Interesting how so many people answer a question that wasn't asked without addressing the question of pacing a 60' workout. And as a bonus, he gets called fat without provocation:

jamesg wrote: ↑

January 20th, 2024, 5:49 pm

100kg at 1.83 indicates BMI 30, somewhat high for oarsmen.

[quote="Mike Caviston" post_id=579292 time=1705727416 user_id=2600
My advice when training is to go faster, not slower. Keep it relatively comfortable, but keep pushing in a systematic, progressive way.
...
For me, training isn't easy or painless, but it's manageable.[/quote]

I can't say that takes the words out of my mouth because M.C. has been at it way longer than me. But in my 12+ yrs of erging, I've been a practitioner and advocate for going relatively harder, not softer, with some success. Age and injuries have made me moderate that some. No longer can I insist on rowing everything below 2:00. I wish I could.

I don't even know what "steady state" rowing is. My view is if you want to be a slow rower, just row slowly all the time. If you want to be fast, row faster with a certain amount of discomfort a good bit of the time. Unless, if one happens to be naturally fast, then slow won't matter.