Concept2 Forum

https://youtu.be/afTLw5a-GQw?feature=shared

For the 1 min I was rowing, I was at a 2:30/500m pace and 30 s/m. I read stuff here that says a 10 year old beginner averages a 2:21 pace and I'm baffled how I can be so slow.

https://rowinglevel.com/rowing-times/50 ... e_vignette

You're dropping your hands way too low on the return to front stops. So that means you're roller coasting over your knees.
You've got shins over vertical at the front of the stroke. That loses power during the drive with your legs.
Your arms aren't locked in place, they appear to be flopping around.
You also need to tie your feet down more or try wearing trainers.

Take a look at: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPvYrfyGHi8

You can get some age group stats from https://log.concept2.com/rankings

Also, you're permanently leaning back - there's no forward lean from the hips on the recovery.

hikeplusrow wrote: ↑

November 4th, 2023, 8:28 am

Also, you're permanently leaning back - there's no forward lean from the hips on the recovery.

IMO Nr1 issue to get fixed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iRbfsCPXVE

Yeah your mechanics and sequencing is not great.

Your body position at the catch should be vertical shins, back straight with shoulders in front of hips, torso leaned forward to 1 o’clock position, arms extended out straight.

Your legs provide the main power during the drive. Your upper body should be braced, still leaned forward to 1 o’clock, and not moving while your legs push.

Once your legs are straight your body can swing back into the 11 o’clock position, then your arms pull the handle to your chest.

The recovery sequence is exactly the reverse. Your hands push away from your chest first, then your body swings forward, then your legs bend as the seat slides forward to return to the catch position.

Drive: legs body arms
Recovery: arms body legs

Most of what you need to know is here:

https://www.concept2.com/indoor-rowers/ ... que-videos

Jc3235 wrote: ↑

November 3rd, 2023, 7:33 pm

I'm baffled how I can be so slow.

Assuming you've got some fitness and strength, technique is the single most important thing that will make you faster.

I'd highly recommend you take the time to get that right before even thinking about looking at your scores.

The advice given above is all spot on and all you need to make some massive improvements.

Get off your tailbone, sit on your glutes and upper thighs. From stroke finish, hinge fwd from hips (head of femur), do this first as an isolation exercise with legs extended (think jack knife dive position, seated toe touch, or even riding on the drops of a road bike). Google up pic drill or backstops drill for rowers; do second position “back & arms only”—reps sufficient to stretch your glutes and lower back muscles.

In your case pre-conditioning comes first and only then the rowing stroke. There are obese guys out there who manage to get their shoulders over their knees on recovery. You’re not flab-challenged so you can easily do the same. So, think conditioning of muscle groups, then learning the phases of the rowing stroke and imprinting sequences of muscle engagement that constitute a proper stroke.

Form comes first. Pace is not a natural attribute of the good looking, the over-privileged, or the under-challenged. Don’t settle for the “gentleman’s C-average.”

Hi and Welcome!

I'd also add that you're using your feet to "hook" you back on the recovery, when you should be using the muscles in the legs/body.

Row a bit strapless and feel how the core needs to be engaged to stop you flying off the back of the slide at the end of the drive; you will lose a little power as you get used to it, but it will translate in the longer term to a better stroke dynamic.

I think you're "shooting the slide" - getting your legs straight early, but leaving the handle behind.

In the main drive phase, locking the core with straight arms ensures that the legs do the work in moving the handle - not the arms.
That's the critical step for the majority of the power in a rowing stroke.

Sorry, but I think it would be easier to point out the things that are correct...your foot stretchers appear to be at the right height.

At this point, I would concentrate on getting your stroke right. No point in going for speed....this'll only ingrain the faulty technique that you have that will be much harder to correct in the future.

The good news is that your rowing technique is really bad. All you can do is improve. One thing that is quite noticeable is that very little energy is being expended, that is not much leg drive. You're definitely trying to do too much with your arms, too soon. Forward/backward lean all wrong; handle management terrible; length of drive practically non existent. If your times are bad, it is easy to see why. Plus, you give no personal data: age,ht,wgt.

Re: average rowing times for 500m. Those times are ridiculous. The avg time for all men is not 1:33.2 - not even close. Much closer to 1:40/500m.

Thanks for the feedback everyone, obviously I have a long way to go. Here's another video where I tried to go slow and focus on form. My main focuses were leaning forward at the catch, keeping arms straight until legs were fully extended, and doing everything in reverse on the way back. Any improvements?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eq4Unq-AgHw

37 yr old, 5'10", 160lb

Jc3235 wrote: ↑

November 10th, 2023, 7:03 pm

Thanks for the feedback everyone, obviously I have a long way to go. Here's another video where I tried to go slow and focus on form. My main focuses were leaning forward at the catch, keeping arms straight until legs were fully extended, and doing everything in reverse on the way back. Any improvements?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eq4Unq-AgHw

37 yr old, 5'10", 160lb

This is much better, but you still have a few refinements to work on. Firstly, keep you head up, so you're always looking directly in a straight line at the monitor. Secondly, when you start the return, try and get your arms lower as it takes a lot of energy to hold them up that high. One tip I found really helpful was to trace your stomach and thighs with the handle as you're starting the return with your arms. Sort of of a 'down and outwards' motion.

Try and get every part of the stroke as smooth as possible, so you're always applying an even amount of force as you push off and pull away from the flywheel.

robhely wrote: ↑

November 10th, 2023, 9:16 pm

Secondly, when you start the return, try and get your arms lower as it takes a lot of energy to hold them up that high. One tip I found really helpful was to trace your stomach and thighs with the handle as you're starting the return with your arms. Sort of of a 'down and outwards' motion

Wrong! You should not "roller coaster" your arms over your knees on the return (like you were doing in the first video). In the latest video your arms look fine. Lots of coaches put a small strip of tape on the chain guide to ensure the chain stays pretty level on the drive and return. You don't have to lock your arms out there, just arms away and a nice relaxed return.

It's definitely much better than the first video. What I notice now is you are reaching at the catch and your shins are going past vertical. It looks like your ankles are flexible enough, so you might raise the feet up one hole to see how that works or just concentrate on not rolling quite as far forward. Also, bend from the hips keeping your back strong, don't hunch your back to reach further.

You've about got it. Keep refining it, pretty soon it will feel more natural.

Much improved, but you're still very stiff and using the all-in one beginner stroke.

The recovery sequence with hands away, then swing, then slide is much easier to do if relaxed.

However relaxation comes with warm up. This can be done on the erg, using what's called the Backstop Drill.

This starts with arms only, then gradually adding swing forward onto the feet, then last, the legs with a gradual increase in seat travel to vertical shins. Feel the pressure under the feet as you slow for the catch. Do this until it becomes automatic and completely relaxed.

The aim is to reach a relaxed catch posture that allows a fast leg action, so that we engage the flywheel as soon as possible and then move it fast.

However, do note that this is very hard work. If unfit, you won't be able to do it for more than a minute or two, even at low rates, 18 to 23. Then stop, rest, go again once or twice. Then try again tomorrow or even the day after.

NB rowing is a sport, and all sports have this type of sequence. Try watching triple jumps, high jumps, polejumps. Can't be done in the wrong order. Same rowing, we start the pull with the large muscle in hips and thighs, and finish with the smaller and faster in the arms, so that each group can do an amount of work that its size allows.