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Cant reach my max HR
Posted: October 30th, 2023, 3:30 am
by rentagreement
Hi folks,
I was encouraged by a user in the Garmin Forums to post my question here.
I am a 46y male, very sporty, originally a Tennis player and strong cyclist, who has found a new love in rowing. i started rowing in mid 2020 and am now rowing 4-6 times a week, mostly steady state 10k at 135-145bpm /22-28spm, mixing in 2 High Intensity workouts per week like 8x2min, 5x3min or 2k @max HR and 28-32spm.... so all of these are thought to be max out sessions.
In cycling my max HR is around 179-184 currently, similar in running. My Garmin watch gives me the same HR recommendations for rowing.
But no matter what I do I simply cannot go beyond 155bpm not to speak about holding this intensity.
In cycling I can easily hold 160-165 for a longer time. Ok, I might be more fit as a cyclist, but how come I am completely out of breath and almost dying just reachig 150bpm, which seems so low to me?
Re: Cant reach my max HR
Posted: November 1st, 2023, 2:29 pm
by Ombrax
How are you measuring your HR on the rower? (I would recommend a chest strap.)
Your max, insane effort on the bike shouldn't be dramatically different from your max, make-you-want-to-puke effort on the rower. (caveat: both efforts must be done gradually, and long enough for your HR to really get up to you max - you can't just hop on the erg, row super hard for 2 minutes and call it a day)
I guessing that it's either measurement error, or an inefficient rowing technique.
Re: Cant reach my max HR
Posted: November 1st, 2023, 4:39 pm
by JaapvanE
rentagreement wrote: ↑October 30th, 2023, 3:30 am
In cycling I can easily hold 160-165 for a longer time. Ok, I might be more fit as a cyclist, but how come I am completely out of breath and almost dying just reachig 150bpm, which seems so low to me?
It might be that some muscles or your technique limit your power, so your cardiovascular system isn't taxed to the limit. Perhaps look at some technique video's?
Re: Cant reach my max HR
Posted: November 1st, 2023, 4:50 pm
by Ombrax
This is interesting:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8775643/
Abstract
Limited information exists on the response to maximal exercise testing in female masters level recreational rowers. This study examined cardiorespiratory and physiologic responses to progressive, incremental exercise using a variable resistance rowing ergometer and a cycle ergometer in six experienced female masters level rowers. Maximal oxygen uptake (VO2 max:33.8 +/- 7.3, 33.5 +/- 6.6 ml.kg-1.min-1) and minute ventilation (VEmax: 86.1 +/- 9.6 l.min-1, 88.7 +/- 13.8 l.min-1) were similar during both tests (rower vs cycle). Maximal heart rates were significantly higher on the cycle ergometer (177 +/- 9 beats/min-1) compared to the rowing ergometer (173 +/- 11 beats/min-1), while peak power on the rowing ergometer (175 +/- 22 watts) was lower than the cycle ergometer (187 +/- 41 watts). Blood lactate levels taken 1 minute following exercise were similar on the rowing ergometer (10.5 +/- 1.7 mM/l) and cycle ergometer (11.8 +/- 1.5 mM/l) and indicated maximal effort was achieved in all subjects. Ventilatory threshold levels were significantly different on the rower (2.0 +/- 0.16) versus the cycle ergometer (1.9 +/- 0.18) (p = 0.38). These data suggest that the cycle and rowing ergometers yield relatively similar results when testing maximal exercise performance in this population.
Re: Cant reach my max HR
Posted: November 1st, 2023, 5:04 pm
by Sakly
If you use your watch, this will not give sufficient values. Due to the heavy movement of your wrist, the watch cannot "see" your heart rate each pulse.
Re: Cant reach my max HR
Posted: November 1st, 2023, 6:31 pm
by Joebasscat
Sakly wrote: ↑November 1st, 2023, 5:04 pm
If you use your watch, this will not give sufficient values. Due to the heavy movement of your wrist, the watch cannot "see" your heart rate each pulse.
This right here!
Re: Cant reach my max HR
Posted: November 2nd, 2023, 2:17 am
by rentagreement
Hi, thank you for your answers. I used to use my watch, but am using a belt now - same issue, i could not even come close to my known maxHR i have during cycling.
So I think it is the point that rowing and cycling maxHR simply differ. I since then changed my HR zones for rowing and set the maxHR rate ablut 10beats lower. The data I get know seem to much better fit the perceived effort
Re: Cant reach my max HR
Posted: November 2nd, 2023, 2:23 am
by Sakly
rentagreement wrote: ↑November 2nd, 2023, 2:17 am
Hi, thank you for your answers. I used to use my watch, but am using a belt now - same issue, i could not even come close to my known maxHR i have during cycling.
So I think it is the point that rowing and cycling maxHR simply differ. I since then changed my HR zones for rowing and set the maxHR rate ablut 10beats lower. The data I get know seem to much better fit the perceived effort
So same results with the belt?
Probably you cannot drive your CVS to full effort due to technical issues in your stroke, this is also possible.
Re: Cant reach my max HR
Posted: November 2nd, 2023, 2:30 am
by rentagreement
Might be, but my stroke seems quite clean to me at least.
I rather do think now I am simply still less fit now in rowing, less than in cycling, (rowing since 2020, cycling since 2000).
Re: Cant reach my max HR
Posted: November 2nd, 2023, 2:36 am
by Sakly
rentagreement wrote: ↑November 2nd, 2023, 2:30 am
Might be, but my stroke seems quite clean to me at least.
I rather do think now I am simply still less fit now in rowing, less than in cycling, (rowing since 2020, cycling since 2000).
Probably.
Im rowing for 1 1/2 year and have no problem to get my HR into mid 180s, which seems to be my max. And that was the case already 2 month on the erg. So it might not be a question of how long you are rowing and how "fit you are on the specific device".
But I also have to say, that I have no comparison to other sports and HR values for me.
Re: Cant reach my max HR
Posted: November 2nd, 2023, 2:52 am
by jamesg
I am completely out of breath and almost dying just reaching 150bpm.
8x2min, 5x3min or 2k @max HR and 28-32spm
Rowing is almost full body, so it's easy to overload the CV system. But that's just what we want to do, so keep at it.
A good stroke is hard work, and has to be learnt and acquired. This is done at low ratings. Useful indices are Watts/kg (2 to 4) and Watts/rating (>10).
For technique try 200W at rate 20.
https://www.concept2.com/indoor-rowers/ ... que-videos
Re: Cant reach my max HR
Posted: November 2nd, 2023, 3:32 am
by rentagreement
jamesg wrote: ↑November 2nd, 2023, 2:52 am
I am completely out of breath and almost dying just reaching 150bpm.
8x2min, 5x3min or 2k @max HR and 28-32spm
Rowing is almost full body, so it's easy to overload the CV system. But that's just what we want to do, so keep at it.
A good stroke is hard work, and has to be learnt and acquired. This is done at low ratings. Useful indices are Watts/kg (2 to 4) and Watts/rating (>10).
For technique try 200W at rate 20.
https://www.concept2.com/indoor-rowers/ ... que-videos
I might try to go rather lower spm and higher watts. This is also my experience in cycling: higher cadence and less watts pushes my HR higher, lower cadence and high watts keeps the HR lower (but tires the muscles quicker).
Re: Cant reach my max HR
Posted: November 2nd, 2023, 4:57 am
by jamesg
The intervals you mention are well over 2k distance, so need not be done at race rates around 30. But the stroke should be in proportion to your height and weight as to force and length.
Re: Cant reach my max HR
Posted: November 2nd, 2023, 5:33 am
by p_b82
What approach have you taken to trying to hit your max HR on the erg?
My max Hr row - If you look at this, I hit an un-intended max hr after only 20 mins, maintained a hard but steady pace for 18 mins and then went anaerobic at the end for 2 mins; it bumped my observed max 2 bpm.
A lot of the prescribed ramp tests require you to have the strength endurance to actually hit your max, but in my case my strength gives out before my HR does on those tests - in my last 2k, my HR is only hitting around 177 as well.
Re: Cant reach my max HR
Posted: November 2nd, 2023, 6:10 am
by Rowan McSheen
I had the same issue with my max hr, which I know from running. Cycling is mostly legs, our largest limbs, so I would imagine your max hr from that will be not too far behind one from running.
You could do a rowing max hr test if you really want to but I suggest subtracting 10 bpm from your cycling max and see how you get on. Sounds like you're sufficiently experienced to know what a gentle aerobic or harder aerobic or anaerobic effort should feel like.