Concept2 Forum

Hi all,
Looking for a quick form check and general training advice. I've been weightlifting a bunch over the past few years with pretty minimal cardio, but finally decided to bite the bullet and put some meaningful training in with the goal of hitting a 7min 2k. I'm 5'7 so don't have the natural height advantage that some others have.

Started a rough version of the Pete Plan on 6/22, so I'm now about 9wks in - it took me a few weeks to get up to the full volumes, and haven't been absolutely religious about it but have got at least 5 of the 6 sessions in most weeks... and have seen some pleasing improvements already.

Week 1 8x500m my average pace was 1.52.3, and last week I averaged 1.44.5
Week 1 max distance was 5500m, now I'm up to at least two x 14,000m pieces per week at 2.08
First speed pyramid was 1.47.9 average pace, most recent was 1.45.0
First 4x1000m was 1.53.5, most recent was 1.48.5

It feels like I'm at least another 2months out from having a real crack at a 2k and just staying the course and putting in the work is probably the path, but wanted to check form and get any tips/tweaks from the more experienced folk out there. Sounds like the 4x1000m is a decent indicator of 2000m time, so want to get that into the 1.45s or below before giving it a shot, which I feel is at least two or maybe three more cycles away.

Video below - this is about 25 minutes into my 14000m row today so it's bouncing around a 2.08-2.12 pace at around 19-21spm. Can certainly get a faster one up if that'd be useful for analysis. Would folk recommend a slower pace and longer sets for the steady state pieces?

https://youtu.be/2Z3C9fJ-DtM

Thanks in advance!

I can't see much, if anything, worth changing.

That's great progress in nine weeks, and the 4 x 1k is always considered a good 2k indication so you're not far off.

The more I think about steady state, the more I think it's just important to find a pace that you can recover from and can enjoy ie your Goldilocks pace. I'm not as concerned about specific paces as mine change at least slightly with my mood and energy on any given day.

I would recommend rowing for as long as you are able to, as that definitely seems to make a notable difference, although, obviously, you'll need to be mindful of pace & recovery if you do increase your distance. Always analyse, assess and adjust

I'd remove that pause at backstops. Rowing should be a single continuous movement from the catch back through the recovery. You're doing it as pull to back stops, pause, return to the next catch.

As the stroke comes into your sternum, keep the movement going, quick hands away. Don't pause.

Your training plan is clearly working so I don't see a need to change anything on that front until you stagnate. Your numbers are certainly closing in on a sub 7.

Form looks pretty solid too the only thing I'd point out is a slight pause at the finish, not sure whether this is for you to find a rhythm for breathing but it's better to get the hands away quickly and use the recovery slide forward to maintain stroke rate.

Would folk recommend a slower pace and longer sets for the steady state pieces?

No. Once endurance has been acquired, 2k training gets shorter and faster as race day gets nearer.

If intending to TT 2k, train your stroke. You'll need to pull 200W (pace 2:00) at rate 20 to get a 7 minute 2k with the same stroke, pulled at rate 30.

Given your high strength, a small increase in drag might slow the pull and let you pull a slightly longer net stroke, also reducing the delay at the backstop. Which will in any case disappear if you uprate. Suggest you test this in some high rate 500s done flat out. See if you can get your ½k time down to say 1:30, and at what rate.

Citroen wrote: ↑

August 31st, 2023, 3:22 am

I'd remove that pause at backstops. Rowing should be a single continuous movement from the catch back through the recovery. You're doing it as pull to back stops, pause, return to the next catch.

As the stroke comes into your sternum, keep the movement going, quick hands away. Don't pause.

Yeah, good point. I didn't notice that

Your stroke looks really solid for where you are in your training. The most common thing I see with people starting out is that they open up with the back too early, but you have really good leg drive. I second focusing on one continuous movement without any distinct pauses unless you're doing drills. It may also be worth videotaping yourself doing some hard work; my sequencing falls apart when I rate up really high.

Pete isn't very prescriptive with his steady state work, but I cap mine at 75% of max HR. This leads to a ballpark steady state time of 2:09, r19-20. My 2k is 6:45.

I would suggest considering just doing a 2k at some point, going in at a 1:48.5-1:49, and then sprinting as much as you are able when you hit 300m remaining. I built up the 2k quite a bit in my mind and had to work hard to get over some mental hangups. Having some experience with how it feels with 1k left and 500m left will help you when you are eventually have the conditioning to go sub-7.

I love when people post videos and are open to critique. So, thanks for posting. As others have stated for being a fairly new rower your form looks really good - agree that you want to avoid the pause and get hands away but otherwise it looks good. I was trying to listen to your breathing as I thought you were forcing a quick breath while pausing but not sure - want to get at good rhythm with breathing and timing the 1 or 2 breaths per stroke. If your form remains solid with the faster pace you are in a good spot. Your times are looking solid and based on your build I am guessing power is no issue. You mentioned the 4x1K being a good predictor of 2K and for me it is almost always spot on but at 2K+1, meaning what I do the 4x1K in I can do 2K at that pace minus one second. So, if you get to averaging 1:46 for the 4x1K I would say you are ready to break the 7:00 2K. However, the 2K is a shock to the system when done at max effort. I would suggest when you think you are close try first to do like 1300-1500 at 1:45 and gauge how it goes. Let us know how you do going for the goal.

Thank you all for the feedback and commentary! Really appreciate it, and have worked on a more continuous movement lately. Seems to be working, my last few 15K SS rows have been R20 and 2.04.5.

I'm now aiming for 3x15km steady state a week, and then following the rest of the PP with a speed day (8x500 or speed pyramid or 4x1000), a middle distance day (5x1500 or 4x2000 or waterfall) and then a 5000m at reasonable speed.

I'm still a bit unclear on whether that distance/stroke/time is a solid place to stay at while focusing more on the speed work - or whether I'd benefit from increasing distance/increasing speed on the steady state side? i.e. should I bump up speed / distance on the 3x15km's or just keep those where they are and put my focus on the speed work.

elpaca wrote: ↑

October 7th, 2023, 1:03 am

I'm still a bit unclear on whether that distance/stroke/time is a solid place to stay at while focusing more on the speed work - or whether I'd benefit from increasing distance/increasing speed on the steady state side? i.e. should I bump up speed / distance on the 3x15km's or just keep those where they are and put my focus on the speed work.

The steady pace is there for enjoyment, recovery and adapting to the effort of the shorter sharper stuff. Don't get caught up with what your steady pace is, as mine varies from circa 1:58- 2:10 depending on what I feel like on any given day.

Increasing distance is usually a good idea, but it all depends on how well you recover, and 15k is a great distance to do so there's no specific need to increase it.

What counts is the stroke: long and hard. Only way to train strength and endurance is use them. The further you want to go, the lower the rate. But always make sure the stroke is worthwhile.

For rowing plans, see:
https://www.britishrowing.org/indoor-rowing/

elpaca wrote: ↑

October 7th, 2023, 1:03 am

Thank you all for the feedback and commentary! Really appreciate it, and have worked on a more continuous movement lately. Seems to be working, my last few 15K SS rows have been R20 and 2.04.5.

I'm now aiming for 3x15km steady state a week, and then following the rest of the PP with a speed day (8x500 or speed pyramid or 4x1000), a middle distance day (5x1500 or 4x2000 or waterfall) and then a 5000m at reasonable speed.

I'm still a bit unclear on whether that distance/stroke/time is a solid place to stay at while focusing more on the speed work - or whether I'd benefit from increasing distance/increasing speed on the steady state side? i.e. should I bump up speed / distance on the 3x15km's or just keep those where they are and put my focus on the speed work.

It's fine to leave the 15kms where they are and just focus on the speed work. If you wanted to increase the distance on the steady state, it would be also reasonable, and I would just cap at about 90 minutes in a single session. If you're doing that, I would also keep an eye on pace - you may need to decrease it to keep recovery from those sessions from interfering with speed work.

You sound like you're new to the erg but your stroke tells another story. Very nicely done! Good split times for your steady state sessions, also.

One thing you might try & see if it works...try not dropping your hands as much on recovery. You might be able to drop a few seconds off your splits.

I'm no expert, but it looks like your technique is really solid apart from the minor issue of getting your hands away faster, which others have mentioned. I find that this is also a good way to find your centre of balance and not have to rely on the straps to stop you flying off the back of the erg! A good drill I've seen is doing cool-down sessions with the feet not strapped in, which really forces you to get the hands away faster to maintain balance.

Other really minor points to maybe consider would be:

1. You have a tendency to look down sometimes at the start of the return - try keeping the head position always the same by always looking forward at the monitor.

2. Sometimes it looks like you're too low at the catch, which means the chain is raising upwards as you get further back in the stroke. Looking at really top rowers who teach technique, the chain line should be almost parallel to the slide.

I'm also chasing a 7min 2k, so very interesting to read about your preparation plan. I've been focussing on 6 x 500m with 1 minute rest as a predictor, but will try 4 x 1000m. How much rest do you do with 4 x 1000M?

I'd say based on your results so far you're not far off the 7min 2k at all.