Concept2 Forum

I'm a 65 year old rower 5"11 and 12 stone - have rowed on and off since my 30's but have fully picked it up again in the last few years.

I've progressed to rowing for 1 hour and have been religiously staying in my 80-90% HR which is 129-145 bpm, stroke rate 22/23 damper setting is between 5 and 6, drag 120-125, watts 130-135 - at this I can row just over 13000m but have plateaued. I listen to music when rowing and occasionally sing along so am not out of breath and recovery, ie heart rate dropping, usually takes about 2 minutes to be below 100.

The only way i see i can improve the distance is by upping the stroke rate and decreasing the split time but this means HR above 145 (90% for my age - my max is around 160). I'm interested if other 'senior' rowers row above the 90% limit and if so for how long. In my head a 5 minute limit in an hour seems reasonable but this is not based on any evidence.

Any thoughts appreciated.

Welcome to the forum Paul.

Interesting background - and my first rection is I'm not surprised by the plateau given several years (?) erging at a consistent 80-90% MHR. Training works by loading the body's systems so that they adapt to be able to cope with what's being asked of them. You will have fully adapted to the stimulus you're giving it by now, so no further adaptation is happening. Having said that...well done (!) you're obviously pretty fit for one of us oldies.

What I would suggest is that you follow a structured training plan for a while (several months at least). Doesn't really matter which one as I'm guessing you just want to see some progress rather than targetting (say) the fastest possible 2k. Most of the plans will prescribe some very different sessions to the one you currently do. There will be some steady distance work that you're used to, but you will probably need to do that slower than your current 10k pace so that HR caps at about 70% maybe 75% - this will take less out of you and be easier to recover from. But you will also be doing some long intervals and sprint intervals which will be much harder sessions than you're used to - probably one of each per week. Sprint intervals likely to see HR up to about 95%, stroke rate well into the 30s and a pace well below 2:00. For the long intervals r28-30, at maybe 5-7s off your 10k pace..and you may even hit MHR at the end of a hard session. Each type of session trains slightly different aspects of the body (and mind!) and contributes to a better whole.

Easiest plan to find might be the PetePlan5k (also Beginner and 2k, but my guess is the 5k plan would fit you're profile best) - there's quite a bit of explanation in the spreadsheets about what to do and why - additional advice is just to start very steady rather than "your best day" as there's a ratchet effect in the sessions and it gets very hard very quickly if you try too hard too soon!

You could also search for the Wolverine Plan (more aimed at elite athletes) or the Interactive plan, or any one of many others. Many of us that have been doing this for years have our own "plan" but they all need to work in much the same way. Of course once you've been training for a few years with these sort of plans you will again plateau - as I have - but at our age it can be more about not slowing down than hitting new heights!

Best of luck with it.

Welcome to the forum, Paul.

Unless you have a well-founded medical reason to not row at higher BPMs, the solution is to also do shorter, harder sessions.

I don't like strictly regimented workouts, so I don't bother following any of the "plans" that are out there, but that's one option. Another is just to add more variety to your rowing workouts. If you're into data then track as much as you like, and see how things change.

I would do some actual testing to find your heartrate limits.

For me the 220-age doesn't work, my max is still in the 180's

Thanks for the suggestions - I have decided to row for 60 minutes having built up through 30 and the 10k for endurance purposes; one of my hobbies is mountain hiking here in the uk and I am usually out for 5 hours - ascent of 3000+feet for a distance of c10 miles' so the rowing has really been helping with my aerobic fitness for this and is one of the reasons why I row. I intersperse rowing with weights sessions of an hour - so the pattern is row/rest day/weights/rest day/row etc plus Manflowyoga every day. So, I have no time to fit in additional sessions but will have a look for the PetePlan 5k and see what it is. I am not expecting great leaps but need to be convinced that short harder sessions at my age will help endurance, i have younger mates who can run much faster than me over short distances but cannot do what i do in the hills - it is a different fitness. When i row an hour my first 4 splits are all usually within 10 meters with the last split being a little faster; I have tried reversing this ie rowing at a higher pace from the off and can do 3 splits before I start to tail off. So perhaps faster 5K and 10 k may help over time.

Your work looks ideal for maintaining good fitness and capabilities, confirmed by results.

So unless you have a different target, there's no point in changing your routines. If such a new target is racing the 2k distance, you already have the basic fitness, so would taper at higher ratings and power. A month or so before racing would be enough.

C2 shows such work in their WODs. Yesterday's was intervals: 5 x 4 min / 1 min easy. Considered as AT work to train for 2k, that could be done at rates around 27 and maybe 200W. There's an Honorboard that shows what all age groups do.

https://www.concept2.com/indoor-rowers/training/wod

Like others have said, it depends on your goals. If I row mostly steady state, low HR sessions, my fitness and erg times level off. If I want to see improvements, I have to up the rate and the watts by doing intervals once or twice each week. That means I have to get my HR closer to my max.

Thanks for the many comments - I now get the notion of levelling off. Have found a PetePlan5 Lite which is 3 days a week, so it will fit in with my general training regime, for 12 weeks so plan to give this a go in the autumn as away most of September. Finding time to do more sessions is not easy as I feel that rest is important to give the muscles time to recover, especially after weight training. I have tried 2 days on, 1 off but 10 sessions a fortnight plus the yoga is tad overkill hence the session every two days. You can't do everything

Hi Paul,

I'm a 66 year old Lwt and doing alot of one hour rows at the moment so interested to hear what you're saying.

Before I mention training are you using the C2 rankings? They are very good for motivation and at only 12 stone you could probably get down to Lwt (11st 11lbs) with a bit of nutritional planning...although I appreciate that's a bit of a guess!

Here's the current Lwt rankings;

https://log.concept2.com/rankings/2024/ ... L&gender=M

and here's the Hwt ones;

https://log.concept2.com/rankings/2024/ ... H&gender=M


Sounds like you may be training too fast too often so not building a good aerobic base.

How to go about training to improve your rowing is a commonly asked question so I wrote an article on the subject that I can copy onto here when it crops up so here it is…hope it helps.

I think the best way to approach any training plan is to make sure you start by building a good Aerobic Base as the benefits of doing that are huge.

To give an image of that….You can jump higher from a platform than you can from the flat of the floor…and rowing without a good aerobic base is like trying to jump from the floor…not the platform.

For long term, sustainable progress then you really do need to do a large volume of base building endurance and aerobic development rows under 70% of maximum heart rate type training.

This is known as the ‘’ UT2’’ heart rate training zone.(Google that for some good info).

When you add interval sessions into the mix you'll see greater results than if you only did the interval sessions with no longer stuff to ''back it up''.(as I often bang on about!)

Interval sessions can improve your speed and fitness over a short period but if you do them (or hard paced distance sessions) for too long you'll plateau and possibly 'burn out’ as you could suffer ‘’over training syndrome’’

The endurance base will improve your rowing times over all distances.

A few weeks peaking for a race with interval sessions is one thing but for the bigger picture you need to build your fitness up from a solid endurance base which involves plenty of long (20 - 30 minutes or more) slow rows at 18 to 20 spm to help improve power in the stroke, slide control plus overall technique...and by slow I mean between 55 - 70% of your maximum heart rate.

If for example your maximum is 180 then 70% would be 126 bpm and you’d need to stay under that at all times during the row….if it looks like you’re going over then slow down….don’t worry about the pace it’s the heart rate that’s important.

If you put ‘’Maffetone Training’’ into Google a lot of good information on this will come up and also google ‘’ ‘’building a good Aerobic Base’’ as there’s plenty showing it’s the way to go.

Training stimulates the body into adapting…. And Adaptation happens on rest days and slow days. That’s when the body has chance to recover and grow. This is when improvements take place.

Going hard at it every day merely breaks the body down, doesn’t have time to adapt, never heals and you can easily get injured so don’t go too fast too often. (Twice a week is plenty and only then if properly fit).

Over time as you go on with this your pace will improve but your Heart Rate will not go any higher so you can enjoy watching progress because the heart is working as the same rate but more efficient at oxygen transportation.

This slow aerobic rowing helps the heart adapt over time.

In this aerobic state the body is happily supplied with enough oxygen to get around the body to the muscles however, it likes to become more efficient at doing it so the heart adapts the left side by stretching the wall.

Each beat of the heart now allows more blood into the left side and in turn, pumps more blood and oxygen around the body on each beat.

It also means that the threshold of when your body goes into a state of oxygen debt is raised and thus you’re able to push harder and improve race times.

This training stimulates many physical changes which drive the improvements, some good examples are;

1) Your small blood vessels (capillaries) open up and grow more to the areas of highest oxygen demand so they can deliver more oxygen to your muscles and carry away waste products such as carbon dioxide and lactic acid.

2) Mitochondria (Energy boosters) in the muscles will multiply and you'll improve the body’s efficiency at burning fat for fuel. Your heart will become stronger and more efficient plus you'll have a lot more energy.

If you do around 80% of your training like this with the remaining 20% faster (such as interval sessions) you’ll have a good chance of improving your rowing over all distances.
3) To summarise…. Training in UT2 uses more fatty acids as fuel for the muscles & enhances the physiological adaptations of capillary growth & mitochondrial replication, so it will long term aid your efficiency.

Another good source of info is ‘’Polarised Training’’ by Steven Seiler so would suggest a Google search on that too plus plenty of good videos on Youtube about improving your rowing/stroke rate/aerobic development.

stroke rate 22/23 damper setting is between 5 and 6, drag 120-125, watts 130-135. The only way i see i can improve the distance

At 65, 5'11, 12 stone (1.80m, 76kg), your erg numbers suggest you can improve technique.

The C2 videos and wording show how it's done:
https://www.concept2.com/indoor-rowers/ ... que-videos

Rates 22/23 and 130/135W (ie work per stroke 5.9 W-min) indicate you are not using your height and strength to full effect. This could be due to doing both weights and rowing in the same week: using the rowing to recover, by going slow.

NB Rate 23 is usually considered as borderline UT1 and AT; if it's not ("sing along" for an hour?) then clearly you're not working hard enough in each stroke. AT work is done in intervals: 2x7', 3x7' for example.

Rod wrote: ↑

July 30th, 2023, 2:42 am

Another good source of info is ‘’Polarised Training’’ by Steven Seiler so would suggest a Google search on that too plus plenty of good videos on Youtube about improving your rowing/stroke rate/aerobic development.

A great source, you can see his TED talk here: https://youtu.be/MALsI0mJ09I

I would like to add this video as well: https://youtu.be/Y6U728AZnV0 where a research cardiologist discusses that training too hard too often is actually causing damage to your health.

FWIW, there are loads of seniors around, competing (both with themselves and others) and erging hard with their HR well above 80% for significant periods of time routinely

If you're medically fit and have no health issues then as far as i can tell there is no reason to give the heart a good workout at any age. Obvs what constitutes a good workout will vary from person to person, but as far as i can tell, age is no bar to making ones heart go as fast as it can. Im 62 and completed a 'steady' 15k yesterday with my HR peaking well in excess of 90% HRmax values with no ill effects (other than the obvious breathlessness that comes immediately at the end of hard exercise).

When it comes to what kind of exercise, there appears to me to be a perception generally, that endurance and speed are mutually exclusive elements of ones fitness. I have to be honest and say i had viewed it much like that too, until i followed a training plan specifically to complete a 100k row. The plan was overwhelmingly geared towards erging at relatively low spm and relatively low HR (compared with sprints) over long periods of time.

Whilst completing the 100k, and subsequently a FM i also set my all time fastest 1 minute and 100m times as well. The point being that whilst the training may be different to achieve different objectives, they are to a greater or lesser extent complimentary in my view. Going a bit faster/harder during your hour row wont be detrimental to you endurance.

Digging deeper into this it seems there are benefits of rowing for lengthy periods in UT2 - so i have looked up how to calculate my UT2 threholds and depending which method is used eg 220 - age or HRR = MHR minus RHR or rowing.org.uk calculator in my case 70% is either 108, 132 or 140 - a huge difference. What is the best method - to me it seems a % of HRR?

GlennUk wrote: ↑

July 31st, 2023, 2:40 am

If you're medically fit and have no health issues then as far as i can tell there is no reason to give the heart a good workout at any age.

The point the TEDx talk is that routinely pushing beyond the easy excercise limit (in my perception the 70% HR boundary almost daily) for prolonged excercise times damages your heart muscle and can actually increase mortality. So limiting most trainings (approx 80%) to HR Zone 2 makes a lot of sense from that perspective.

pauld58 wrote: ↑

July 31st, 2023, 6:00 am

Digging deeper into this it seems there are benefits of rowing for lengthy periods in UT2 - so i have looked up how to calculate my UT2 threholds and depending which method is used eg 220 - age or HRR = MHR minus RHR or rowing.org.uk calculator in my case 70% is either 108, 132 or 140 - a huge difference. What is the best method - to me it seems a % of HRR?

220-age is a wild guess, and so is 70%. If you really want to know, get a lactate kit and poke yourself several times to determine your anerobic threshold (about 1% lactate, but that's another but somewhat more rational wild guess). If you really want to know your max HR, get a stress test at a clinic. But 70% of that is still an arbitrary number.

It is clear that overtraining is bad, and that undertraining is sub-optimal. But there's no bright line about what the optimal pace/duration is. Most of the literature is based on elite athletes, which we're not.

It is not clear what optimal optimizes. Is it increased speed, regardless of training time? Is it minimal training time for a given speed? Is it longevity?

Adhering to a rigid plan and/or a rigid formula may not be your best path to fitness/health/happiness/longevity. Especially if the rigid formula relies on estimates with little validity.