Concept2 Forum

Fellas.

1) my bottom hurts a little bit. It doesn't stop me from rowing any length of time I can handle, but it's not particularly funny. I'm going to buy a seat cover. I have seen this one recommended a few times on this forum (and also I see it advertised by DarkHorse but perhaps it's paid ad I don't know):
https://www.amazon.com/Hornet-Waterspor ... 372&sr=8-5

The specific question I have is: it's pretty thick. Since people use it, I presume that's not an issue. But do I need to change my feet position as a result ? If yes, higher, or lower on the foot rest ? I presume higher yes ?

2) I watched a video from Concept Australia, the guy says that people with weak hips tend to row "with their shoulders" to compensate. I feel I am guilty of this. And also, the power chart on the PM4 shows me I have weak hips. I tried to help myself and looked for videos on youtube but there are hundreds of them, all suggesting different things and not specific to rowing. Do you guys have a specific exercise to recommend to strengthen my hips ? And to be clear, I'm not necessarily looking for something to do on the rowing machine. In fact, I would prefer something I can do at home at random times of the day.

3) our rowing machine is at the gym in my building. It is, therefore, used by other residents too. See if I can find someone who knows what he or she is doing and discuss with him/her. I had a look at the PM4 see what others are doing and I noticed this person who is doing this exercise every day. It is essentially extremely high stroke rate, but extreme low pace (even by my standard !). I would like to know what it looks like but unfortunately this person is exericising at random times of the day so I cannot ambush him/her to take a look ! I would like to know if there is any merit in doing this. I am asking because it seems to be contrary to what you guys overall have been telling me, which is essentially to optimise stroke work instead. Because I do not know this person's objective, there may be a valid reason for doing this. I don't know, so I ask. Is it something competitive rowers do to practice their extreme stroke rates ?

1: don't know anything, never had issues with it, even not on 2h+ rows. Bought one for my wife, but I never tried it.

2: any exercise which points to hip extension and works glutes, hamstrings and lower back. E. g. Deadlifts, Kettle bell swings, squats jumps...

3: IMHO there is no specific reason doing this, I expect this is due to very bad technique, shooting the slide, barely moving the handle at all. Otherwise it wouldn't be possible to create so low forces at such a high rate.
It doesn't make sense to create a high rate without load, as this will train nothing except sliding the rail up and down fast.

1) I had the same problem, but I didn't want something too thick. I ended up buying this one from the same brand.
https://www.amazon.it/gp/product/B01N284HLK/
Things seem to have improved somewhat, but sometimes my bottom still hurts.

3), I think he/she is probably doing an arms only drill/workout.

1556m in 15 minutes is 1.73 m/s and 14.5 Watts, so less than basic metabolic rate.

As for strength, if on the erg you use Ergdata you can see how hard you are pulling, at least according to C2 maths. There may be some margin there already, with respect to your weight.

The key to seats, is get it done asap, ie pull so hard you don't notice anything else.

1) I use this https://www.crewroom.co.uk/products/crewroom-seat-pad underneath the C2 pad.

just erg seat = pain after 35mins, just C2 pad = pain after 50mins, just gel seat pain after 50mins, both pain only after an hour.

I too was wary about anything that raised my seat position too much, but I had to make one hole adjustment up to be able to keep my shins vertical comfortably.

2) Nothing more to add that sakly didn't cover for specific motions; but on the erg you can also help by sitting "tall" with your shoulders down.
It will transfer where the muscles are working during the row downwards towards your core and thus your hips as well.

3) No idea; You'll just have to try to catch them in the act I think!

jrkob wrote: ↑

June 9th, 2023, 12:36 am

Fellas.

1) my bottom hurts a little bit. It doesn't stop me from rowing any length of time I can handle, but it's not particularly funny. I'm going to buy a seat cover. I have seen this one recommended a few times on this forum (and also I see it advertised by DarkHorse but perhaps it's paid ad I don't know):
https://www.amazon.com/Hornet-Waterspor ... 372&sr=8-5

The specific question I have is: it's pretty thick. Since people use it, I presume that's not an issue. But do I need to change my feet position as a result ? If yes, higher, or lower on the foot rest ? I presume higher yes ?

What sort of pain? Sores from rubbing or general aching?

For the former I found that using shorts with no seam up the butt helped. Also ChamoisButtr to stop the chaffing and finally I resorted to the citius remex rowing seat pad (expensive but worked better than the C2 pad for me). It puts your sit bones in the right place and relieves pressure.

https://citius-remex.com/shop/prow-adju ... djustable/

If it's just aching then you will get past that with more time in the saddle.....imo

My only thought is about number 3 which is: "that's no way to row a boat!"
I suspect this person just has no idea what they are doing.

I'd also add glute bridges and reverse planks as great exercises. They open and strengthen your hips in the same exercise. When you get better you can add dipping and marching into your bridges. It's a very common Pilates exercise, something that I highly recommend as it builds a strong core girdle which is essential in injury prevention for rowing.

Imo, you should steer well clear of whoever has rowed that screenshot. There's no merit in it whatsoever that I can see. Even arms only rowing wouldn't be done at that spm or length of time.

If you want some sound advice about all aspects of rowing, I would make a call to the Hong Kong Rowing association. I'm sure they could offer some training courses.

They also cover indoor rowing. I competed in the 2010 Hong Kong open indoor rowing championships. Think I still hold the Hong Kong MHWT 50-59 2k record.

There is a guy called Tony Tyler who I think is based in Hong Kong who ranks his times on the c2 rankings site 60-69. You could track him down too.

No comment on the hip issue or seat. I managed a 50k without PIA a month ago, while all my training has been on the erg. The important thing is to make sure you don't let your technique compensate for any weakness, so in your case make sure you are properly rotating your from the hips and not compromising your back.

Re the pace, this is quite extreme, but I have seen amazing issues on ergs in gyms. I used to tentatively make suggestions if they looked approachable, but after being told that a PT had told hem to do it that way I gave up! On some cheap rowing machines it just counts the number of strokes, so people get used to hurrying the slide. Also many people try and keep the effort constant, so don't put in more work on the power stroke than on the recovery. They may not even realise that they can move the seat!

It"s amazing in gyms. Hardly anyone knows how to row properly. They all put the damper on 10 and just row with terrible technique! Usually the handle is lagging way behind the rest of the drive because of the damper setting. I've been going to the gym for 5 months now and have only seen 1 other person with decent technique even though it's a busy gym, there are 8 C2s and quite a lot of people use them. Mainly for warm up before they hit the weights.

I don't offer advice unless I'm asked. A couple of young ladies who were entirely new to the gym and rowing watched me row and did ask for some advice when I'd finished. A gave them a couple of minutes on the basics and I hope I set them on the right path.

Sadly it applies to all training activities in the gym, not only to rowing. Most trainers are not interested in giving good advices and good introduction. Most people joining a gym are not interested in good and effective training.

Guys thanks a lot for the responses, as always super helpful.

Regarding (3). Ok so I spent the morning at the gym waiting for this person to show up, which she eventually did !
You guys were right, awful technique even by my humble standard. I chose not to approach her.

nick rockliff wrote: ↑

June 9th, 2023, 10:12 am

If you want some sound advice about all aspects of rowing, I would make a call to the Hong Kong Rowing association. I'm sure they could offer some training courses.

Very good idea ! I checked their website and sent them an email to make contact.

winniewinser wrote: ↑

June 9th, 2023, 6:07 am

What sort of pain? Sores from rubbing or general aching?
[...]
If it's just aching then you will get past that with more time in the saddle.....imo

It's just aching. Problem is I have very little fat on my bottom so my bone pretty much rests on the seat.

My suggestion for the seat issue is to start with as simple a solution as you can find on hand (e.g. a towel folded over one or two times, thin bubble wrap, folded if necessary, thin bits of foam closed-cell foam like what C2 sells for their seat pad, etc. etc) If that helps, then great, if not keep trying and move up the complexity scale until you do find something that helps. Good Luck.

Regarding the numbers from other users you see in the PM history, personally I think they're valid for two purposes, only one of which is potentially helpful to you: 1) Identifying if there are any other serious rowers using the machine, and 2) Entertainment. For example, when you find someone who regularly some something like a 20 minute workout at a stroke rate of 30 spm and a pace of 3:30 / 500 (there's someone in my my gym who does that several times a week). I'm no expert, but I know enough to tell you that the vast majority of "standard" gym erg users have no idea whatsoever what they're doing. Most in my gym just do a 5 minute or so session (typically with the damper set at "10") at a pace between 3:00 and 4:00, then get off. Every now and then an obviously strong rower will show up in the history, but not often.

Yes you're right in fact, I am checking the PM's history almost every day for this specific reason. I'm hopeful to notice a strong stroke I could approach. I haven't seen it yet but I keep checking. My sense is that if there was one, I would have seen it by now. It seems I'm the only one who is not using exclusively the Just Row function.