Developing a stronger stroke

[Kerry1960]

I've only been erging since January and I'm happy with the progress I've made but I've improved really because of a better technique and much improved fitness. I'm very aware that to take it up a level I need to develop a more powerful stroke. My stroke is still only 7w at best.

I guess the classic way of doing this is to do lots of rowing at r20 and put more power into each stroke but I wonder if there are any other methods. Is there any value in doing some sprinting sessions with the DF up higher?

Apart from rowing I'm trying to get stronger with lots of wide and narrow press ups.

[Sakly]

Press ups won't help much for a stronger stroke, but are great as accessory for rowing.
To get stronger in the main muscles used, you need to train these muscles with higher load and less reps = more intensity.
Squats, deadlift, rowing motions. If you don't have access to a gym, use several bodyweight alternatives.
Also possible on the erg, low rate and pressure through the stroke, only 10 then pause. But if you cannot get over 7w/min with this approach in the rower, it points more to a technique thing than missing power. With your stats you should easily be able to pull 10w/min strokes and up to 12-13w/min during some power strokes.

[Kerry1960]

Thanks for the advice Sascha. At r20 with power strokes my power is probably closer to 8w but as soon as I rate up eveN a little bit it drops to nearer 7w.

My physio has told me not to do squats because of the state of my knees but there is a leg press machine in the gym which mimics rowing motion and seems OK to use although I've only tried it a little bit so far.

I've never tried deadlifts yet but I definitely don't want to get injured so I would need to very careful.

[Sakly]

Thanks for the advice Sascha. At r20 with power strokes my power is probably closer to 8w but as soon as I rate up eveN a little bit it drops to nearer 7w.

Interesting, for me it's different. When I go for TTs at shorter stuff, I can get even a bit higher power in my strokes.
Probably this also relates to technical flaws, which pop up more, if you cannot focus on your stroke due to higher rate and faster fatigue.

My physio has told me not to do squats because of the state of my knees but there is a leg press machine in the gym which mimics rowing motion and seems OK to use although I've only tried it a little bit so far.

Ok, bad knees probably won't help with squats. What is the exact problem? Rowing does not seem to be a problem and is very near to the squat movement.

I've never tried deadlifts yet but I definitely don't want to get injured so I would need to very careful.

Absolutely. You should get a trainer (who knows what he is doing and has some interest you do the same afterwards) to get advice.

[Kerry1960]

Knees issue is mild arthritis in both knees and surgery for torn meniscus only 7 months ago.

[jamesg]

If particularly interested in a good 2k, keep working on technique, it's early days yet. You'll need a stroke at around 10W-min, should be well under 20 minutes in 5k. Might take a year tho you've already been quick.

With knees a problem, posture will be important: make sure the knee angle doesn't close too far, by keeping the slide well away from the heels at the catch, with the weight forward before sliding, when coming forward.


Strength is useful, but only if used; a quicker catch can increase the length of the stroke by reducing slack. The open knee angle helps here too.

[Sakly]

Knees issue is mild arthritis in both knees and surgery for torn meniscus only 7 months ago.

In this case I would work on strengthening the muscles around the knees and work on mobility.
Is the knee fully operable? 7 months is a long time, even if the meniscus was sutured, which is done rather rarely. Physio should have given you many exercises for rehab and if rehab is going without issues you should already be mostly back on track fully - if exercises were applied frequently and technically well performed.

What James wrote applies anyway, so no special trick. It could probably help to shorten the slide even more - means not going shins vertical and stop a bit before - but I would only do that if it is really needed. And that would point to the need of strengthen the knees.

[Kerry1960]

Thanks both. I think I might benefit from a technique review.

I have to say that erging , and cross trainer which I also do in the gym, have really helped my knee recovery. In January I was still getting quite a lot of knee pain when walking but now hardly any.

Torn meniscus was just debrided not repaired which is the usual procedure in the UK on the NHS.

[Sakly]

Thanks both. I think I might benefit from a technique review.

Definitely, typically everybody does

I have to say that erging , and cross trainer which I also do in the gym, have really helped my knee recovery. In January I was still getting quite a lot of knee pain when walking but now hardly any.

Torn meniscus was just debrided not repaired which is the usual procedure in the UK on the NHS.

Nevertheless, I find 7 month is a really long time for recovery. Sure, meniscus is very individual, but typically we talk about 4-6 weeks until you can go for activities again and you can start to load the knee more heavily for strengthening.
I personally would start with restricted range single leg "touch downs". Start standing on a single plate with one foot, e.g. 5cm height, then brace your core, start hinging the hips and do a single leg squat until your heel touches the floor, go back up. Engage the glutes to open the hips during the movement and have external rotation and stable knee. Several reps each side.
This exercise can be scaled easily adding height step by step based on the added strength and stability you gain. Rowing and cross trainer have to low intensity to strengthen the muscles accordingly.

[Elizabeth]

Was the physio's advice not to do squats recent, or from earlier in your recovery? Can they work with you on a plan to build up to a more comprehensive strength program? I've had meniscus repairs on both knees, granted two decades ago, and they haven't really limited me beyond that recovery period. My current strength routine includes squats, deadlifts, bench, barbell row, pullups, plus some unilateral variations of the above. It's impossible to isolate the impact of any one facet of my training on my erg times, but I think this has been helpful.

Also, if you are building up from a knee surgery, I wonder if you're subconsciously limiting your leg drive. Leg drive should be the source of most of your power. What happens if you specifically focus on driving through your heels, for example?

[Kerry1960]

@Elizabeth

Actually the advice from the physio re squats was a couple of years ago before the recent knee injury and surgery. Probably given because of my age and the fact that I have mild arthritis in both knees. Always resistance band exercises from my physio generally!

Driving through heels - not sure I understand . On my drive I only feel pressure through the balls of my feet not the heels. Heels come up a bit I feel pressure in the balls of my feet push and heels go down again. Am I doing something wrong?

[Kerry1960]

It's also probably true to say that when I started erging this year my legs were very weak . In 2019 I had a rebuild of my foot/ ankle called a double arthrodesis which involved metal staples in the foot and a bone graft. I had severe arthritis in my right foot caused my blocked blood vessels which led to gaps between the small joints in the foot. With wasting my time with GP for a year, waiting for MRIs, waiting for the op. 10 weeks in plaster and then a year before it all felt right. With this and the torn meniscus you can see that I haven't been able to do a lot physically on my feet in the last few years.

I now feel physically fit, glad I found erging and I get it that I need to get significantly stronger if I'm to take it up a level or 2.

[Elizabeth]

Kerry, so sorry about all of the medical issues! That's really beyond my expertise, but anecdotally, I've gotten very different advice from different doctors. One of my best experiences was with a doctor who was himself an athlete and was used to working with active duty military. It may be worth seeking out another opinion.

But, if we assume lower body strength is mainly off the table for the moment, it can still be good to add in some pulls to balance out the presses. This can be rows, pullups, pull-up variations.

As far as driving through the heels, my heels come up off of the foot stretchers during the recovery as I approach the catch, and then as I begin to push, my heel goes back down to the foot stretcher and I try to drive through, making really good connection with my heel and the foot plates. When I started doing that on harder pieces, it had good carry-over into a stronger pull. It's hard to explain though. I'm also having a really hard time doing it in a boat.

[Kerry1960]

Thanks for the reply Elizabeth. Leg strengthening isn't off the agenda though probably not with weighted squats. There are lots of other leg machines in my gym which I could use and seem fine to use leg curl, leg extention, leg press etc.

The operation on my foot was a complete success it just took a while to come together.

As for the heel drive issue, ll try to feel this when I row tomorrow.

Many thanks for the advice.

[Sakly]

Leg strengthening isn't off the agenda though probably not with weighted squats. There are lots of other leg machines in my gym which I could use and seem fine to use leg curl, leg extention, leg press etc.

You should definitely give the described bodyweight exercise a go. The problem with machines is that they cut out all factors for stability and overall movement, as you have typically many fixed points. At least you should do it as a part of your leg routine, probably on your warmup.