Concept2 Forum

I am working my way through the Great Britain Rowing Intermediate Program https://www.britishrowing.org/wp-conten ... n_P3-6.pdf (currently week 3) and am wondering what is a good strategy for the first session of the week (pyramid SPM intervals with no rest).

My current strategy is tracking my splits, generally working to keep it sub 2:00 min, which works for the build-up to the top of the pyramid. But, for my descent, by the 22 SPM interval, I am SPENT. I imagine that is the point of these sessions, but, I can't help but wonder if I should be concentrating on holding the SPM and not worrying about my split time?

The BR plans are for rowing, so use the rowing concept of training the stroke.

The erg measures power directly, so we know what stroke we are pulling. In numbers, if you want to train a 10W stroke Work, pull that or close. A 20-22-24- pyramid would be at 200-220-240-W and back.

If a crisis comes at the 4th or 5th split, adjust the stroke Work: slower pace.

Wattsun64 wrote: ↑

March 7th, 2023, 12:56 am

My current strategy is tracking my splits, generally working to keep it sub 2:00 min, which works for the build-up to the top of the pyramid. But, for my descent, by the 22 SPM interval, I am SPENT. I imagine that is the point of these sessions, but, I can't help but wonder if I should be concentrating on holding the SPM and not worrying about my split time?

It can be difficult to keep your ego under control, but you want to treat the descent as the main focus of the session. I'd aim for 2:01/2ish instead and make up the pace on the way down.

Ideally you'll feel like your tickling the edges of a HD, assuming that this session is supposed to be a hard effort, but this is when you dig in and find something that you didn't think was available

The text in the plan clearly states that the intention is that pace increases with rating. I would take that as meaning that it should decrease with rating as well. 2:00 pace at 20SPM is approx. 200W, so the work per stroke ~10WMin. If this is a maximum for a 30' R20, then on a rate pyramid, you should be using a lower amount of work per stroke. What is appropriate will depend upon your endurance and size, but starting at 2:03 for 20SPM would seem reasonable. Maintaining the same work per stroke would then mean 1:59 for 22SPM, 1:56 for 24SPM and 1:53 for 26SPM. THis session is intended to build a consistent stroke, so you should definitely see a significant increase in the pace as the rate increases, while you should try and hit the same paces coming down as well.

I've always thought the key to these pyramids is to MATCH your previous pace at specific SPM on the way down. You have to dig to do this, but that's the idea. It's about generating consistent power per stroke at each stroke rate.

Dangerscouse wrote: ↑

March 7th, 2023, 5:02 am

It can be difficult to keep your ego under control, but you want to treat the descent as the main focus of the session. I'd aim for 2:01/2ish instead and make up the pace on the way down.

You hit the nail right on the head. It really comes down to me leaving my ego at the door and mentally push through.

I do like the idea of making up the pace on the descent. I will be giving that a try in next week's session!

Wattsun64 wrote: ↑

March 7th, 2023, 9:39 am

You hit the nail right on the head. It really comes down to me leaving my ego at the door and mentally push through.

I do like the idea of making up the pace on the descent. I will be giving that a try in next week's session!

We've all been there, and will be again. You feel good and energetic so you push the boundaries, but it soon slaps you in the face!

It's a good feeling knowing the next interval will be less distance / time so you're more likely to not overdo it. Not as likely but still very possible

mitchel674 wrote: ↑

March 7th, 2023, 8:11 am

I've always thought the key to these pyramids is to MATCH your previous pace at specific SPM on the way down. You have to dig to do this, but that's the idea. It's about generating consistent power per stroke at each stroke rate.

Interesting, would you do that session with a full pressure stroke at R26? Raising the work per stroke by a factor of 26/20 would take me from a gentle stroke to something I couldn't maintain for more than a couple of mins max. I know it is only 2 min, but it is after a lot of work much at high work per stroke. That said, I am a middle aged weakling, so not what the plan is aimed at!

iain wrote: ↑

March 8th, 2023, 6:14 am

mitchel674 wrote: ↑

March 7th, 2023, 8:11 am

I've always thought the key to these pyramids is to MATCH your previous pace at specific SPM on the way down. You have to dig to do this, but that's the idea. It's about generating consistent power per stroke at each stroke rate.

Interesting, would you do that session with a full pressure stroke at R26? Raising the work per stroke by a factor of 26/20 would take me from a gentle stroke to something I couldn't maintain for more than a couple of mins max. I know it is only 2 min, but it is after a lot of work much at high work per stroke. That said, I am a middle aged weakling, so not what the plan is aimed at!

It depends. You do get a bump of speed as you rate up. For me, these pieces are about maintaining a strong stroke at each pace as you go up and then hitting that previous target pace as you come back down. It keeps you honest! You must keep a strong stroke at any rating and not just take the free speed.

mitchel674 wrote: ↑

March 8th, 2023, 7:40 am

iain wrote: ↑

March 8th, 2023, 6:14 am

mitchel674 wrote: ↑

March 7th, 2023, 8:11 am

I've always thought the key to these pyramids is to MATCH your previous pace at specific SPM on the way down. You have to dig to do this, but that's the idea. It's about generating consistent power per stroke at each stroke rate.

Interesting, would you do that session with a full pressure stroke at R26? Raising the work per stroke by a factor of 26/20 would take me from a gentle stroke to something I couldn't maintain for more than a couple of mins max. I know it is only 2 min, but it is after a lot of work much at high work per stroke. That said, I am a middle aged weakling, so not what the plan is aimed at!

It depends. You do get a bump of speed as you rate up. For me, these pieces are about maintaining a strong stroke at each pace as you go up and then hitting that previous target pace as you come back down. It keeps you honest! You must keep a strong stroke at any rating and not just take the free speed.

I think I may have misunderstood, not appreciating the underlined phrase. Are you saying that if you say did 2:03 @ R20; 1:59 @ R22; 1:56 @ R24 then 1:53 @ R26 that you would intend to match the 1:56 @ R24 next? That makes complete sense to me, I thought you were saying that you should try and maintain 1:53 pace at each of the lower ratings!

mitchel674 wrote: ↑

March 7th, 2023, 8:11 am

I've always thought the key to these pyramids is to MATCH your previous pace at specific SPM on the way down. You have to dig to do this, but that's the idea. It's about generating consistent power per stroke at each stroke rate.

I do see your POV, but I'm of the opinion that you've got no real idea of what to aim for on the way up, but it will probably be too fast due to ego, so the descent will also probably be unsustainable.

If you focus on the descent being faster and harder, you get a double win, as you keep building confidence and pace. Otherwise, it's too close to a fly & die, which will only serve to dent your confidence. When you know what is possible, I'd suggest maintaining the pace is far more beneficial otherwise, IMO, there's too much at risk.

iain wrote: ↑

March 8th, 2023, 11:00 am

mitchel674 wrote: ↑

March 8th, 2023, 7:40 am

iain wrote: ↑

March 8th, 2023, 6:14 am

Interesting, would you do that session with a full pressure stroke at R26? Raising the work per stroke by a factor of 26/20 would take me from a gentle stroke to something I couldn't maintain for more than a couple of mins max. I know it is only 2 min, but it is after a lot of work much at high work per stroke. That said, I am a middle aged weakling, so not what the plan is aimed at!

It depends. You do get a bump of speed as you rate up. For me, these pieces are about maintaining a strong stroke at each pace as you go up and then hitting that previous target pace as you come back down. It keeps you honest! You must keep a strong stroke at any rating and not just take the free speed.

I think I may have misunderstood, not appreciating the underlined phrase. Are you saying that if you say did 2:03 @ R20; 1:59 @ R22; 1:56 @ R24 then 1:53 @ R26 that you would intend to match the 1:56 @ R24 next? That makes complete sense to me, I thought you were saying that you should try and maintain 1:53 pace at each of the lower ratings!

Yes, that's my suggestion. When you descend in rating and can match your previous pace at that rate despite your fatigue, you are developing a consistent and strong stroke.

Dangerscouse wrote: ↑

March 8th, 2023, 12:57 pm

mitchel674 wrote: ↑

March 7th, 2023, 8:11 am

I've always thought the key to these pyramids is to MATCH your previous pace at specific SPM on the way down. You have to dig to do this, but that's the idea. It's about generating consistent power per stroke at each stroke rate.

I do see your POV, but I'm of the opinion that you've got no real idea of what to aim for on the way up, but it will probably be too fast due to ego, so the descent will also probably be unsustainable.

If you focus on the descent being faster and harder, you get a double win, as you keep building confidence and pace. Otherwise, it's too close to a fly & die, which will only serve to dent your confidence. When you know what is possible, I'd suggest maintaining the pace is far more beneficial otherwise, IMO, there's too much at risk.

Yes, the fly and die can be demoralizing, but if you set out on this type of stroke rate pyramid with a plan and pace you know you should hit, it can be a great learning experience to dig deep on the way down and match your prior paces set on the way up despite your fatigue.