Concept2 Forum

Hello, all. I am a very new rower and am looking for some advice with regards to form and training it. To start off, I am 6 1, 210lbs. or 1.85m 95kg. and am 19. I would consider myself relatively athletic, but I initially started rowing a month ago because, after months off as a result of an injury, rowing was the only thing I was able to do. I am therefore very new to rowing.
I was using the C2, but am currently using a life fitness water rowing machine, as it is what I have access to; however, I will be going back to the C2 in a few weeks when I have access to it again. All of the times I give will be from the life fitness machine, but they should be, from my experience, relatively accurate. If someone has had a different experience with the accuracy, I would love to hear it.

I have been following the pete plan, and have found a rather odd thing has occurred. When doing shorter intervals, e.g. 500m, my spm sits between 32-36, and I find that times around 1:45 are extremely to do 5 times in a row with 1:45 rest between each one, while 1:50 is not super difficult but provides moderate challenge. These times have similar spm and I therefore change the speed with the intensity of my pull. On my longer rows, I typically row for an hour at a pace of 1:52-1:54 with a spm of 14-18. While this is challenging, I find it much easier than the short ones. I also find it odd that I can row for this long at a pace similar to my short distance; it seems as though, given a 1:53 pace for an hour, I should be able to pull a 7:20 2k, even if with difficulty. This is part of my concern; I wonder whether a low spm is hindering my cardio training, which is undoubtedly the weakest part of my ability right now.

Firstly, I am wondering whether there is an ideal stroke rate to train/row at. I imagine that I at some point will need to pull at the intensity of my current 14spm but at 34 spm, but is training the extremely low spm hurting me?

Additionally, when I do any rowing but especially low spm, I find that my feet pull off intensely and are held there by the straps only. I know that is not ideal, but will the switch to unstrapped be easy? Should I focus on going fast or slow when trying to cement my feet. I see it as a good sign that I am using my legs a lot, but I also know that it is not good form and should be switched. Any advice on this topic would be helpful.

As you may be able to discern, I am rather confused on how to train. I am passionate and dedicated but rather confused on all aspects of rowing. I have started and will continue to read through this forum, but any more specific advice would may have is greatly appreciated. Thank you!

Unfortunately training does not teach us to erg. Rowing is a sport; so basic technique has to be learnt first. The basic guidelines are here:
https://www.concept2.com/indoor-rowers/ ... que-videos

It's very hard to train a good stroke at high ratings; if unfit the power needed will kill you in a few seconds. Maximum rate for distance work is 23-24, if your stroke is a good one, pulled at optimum length and force, close to race values.

Stroke quality is Watts/Rating. The C2 erg lets you calculate this, since it shows Watts with sufficient accuracy. 10 is a good starting level: 200W at 20.

The difference you find between 1:45 (300W) and 1:50 (260W) is due to the cube law: 5% more speed needs 15% more power. You can see this on the Concept machines, which do actually measure power, hence the name ergometer. The ergdata app shows force, length, Watts etc.

At 1.85 and 95kg, you have BMI of almost 28. This could make it difficult to pull a long stroke.

There are only one or two other machines that are comparable to the C2 for accuracy, and I never heard of a Life Fitness rower, but I'd be surprised if this was comparable with a C2.

Lower rates are usually better for stronger rowers and higher rates for fitter rowers, but there's a significant discrepancy between a 1:52 60 mins session at r14-18 and 500m at 1:50 and r32-36.

Something isn't right, as that doesn't make sense for 1:45 to be extremely hard, and 1:50 to be a moderate challenge, as it's only 500m and 1:45 rest is long enough to recover. I'd have expected you to be able to pull circa 1:35s if you're able to row a 16k hour at r14-18.

If I was you I'd wait until you get on the C2 to understand where you're really at, and imo, there's never any reason to go lower than r18. I've seen many people

I row unstrapped 99% of the time, and I'm happy(ish) with up to r27 and 1:45 pace, so it's definitely not necessary to use them all of the time, with the notable exception of TTs or really intense intervals etc. If you're really relying on them, the issue isn't about really using your legs it's about transference of power and not leaking power as your momentum is taking you too far away from the flywheel and you'll need to use more energy to reverse the direction.

It's not natural to not use them to start with, and you'll very easily fly off the back if you're not careful. So all you can do is slowly build up to it, and go easy to start with.

I appreciate the feedback. I definitely will try to get back on the C2 as soon as possible; I do not expect my current machine to be entirely accurate and only hope that it is consistent so that, even if my times are inaccurate, they are accurate in relation to each other and therefore accurately show progress or a lack of it. Hopefully the C2 will fix my time discrepancy problems; if it does not, I will follow up.

As for my BMI, I think this could play a factor to an extend, although I believe it to be more limiting as an indicator of being out of shape rather than limiting my stroke length too much. Since I am relatively short, I intend to keep most of the mass and try to get down to 86-88kg. Any lower than this and I risk losing muscle mass. Having looked at the top short rowers, it seems that most of them that are super short are rather built, so I intend to follow this archetype.

rowx3yourboat wrote: ↑

December 20th, 2022, 7:26 pm

I wonder whether a low spm is hindering my cardio training, which is undoubtedly the weakest part of my ability right now.

This sentence sounds bizarre to me - most of us do our low rate sessions to improve cardio. Its the short intense intervals that build our power and anaerobic capacity. Maybe you are using your low rate sessions for strength training? ie Doing max pulls from almost a standing start at high resistance/Drag/ or whatever your machine calls it. Its a thing of course that some use who dont have access to weights but not something to do all the time or in any way for cardio exercise. The aerobic stuff is typically best done at r20 ish at about 2k +20 (or more!) pace - it should feel very easy. Its about using the right fuel source, if you go too fast you wont be training aerobically. Its also a very a long term thing - aerobic stuff requires high volume and takes months/years to build - much slower to build than power.

Okay perhaps it is a machine error (the discrepancy in times) or the fact that I change my spm so much. When I do my long rows, I almost do this max pull thing, except it is less than max although still intense, my spm is low, and I do it for an hour. These pulls are almost a stop and start process because they are so slow, and I in fact often stop at both the top and bottom of the pull. I will have to look in why one would do a short row versus a long row, as I don't entirely understand the aerobic versus anaerobic components of training. Thank you for your advice

understand the aerobic versus anaerobic components of training.

Once you've developed your stroke, aerobic for style and endurance starts at rate 18 and can reach 23-24 when very fit. Anaerobic is developed when tapering for races, in short intervals.

At 1.85 using 65% height as Length and say 55% weight as force, you should have a stroke worth around 1.2m x 520N = 620Nm; which at rate 20 is 200W. Watts show on the C2 PM; and L and F in ergdata.

rowx3yourboat wrote: ↑

December 21st, 2022, 2:02 pm

Okay perhaps it is a machine error (the discrepancy in times) or the fact that I change my spm so much. When I do my long rows, I almost do this max pull thing, except it is less than max although still intense, my spm is low, and I do it for an hour. These pulls are almost a stop and start process because they are so slow, and I in fact often stop at both the top and bottom of the pull. I will have to look in why one would do a short row versus a long row, as I don't entirely understand the aerobic versus anaerobic components of training. Thank you for your advice

I wouldn't recommend incorporating any stop / start into your rowing stroke. Just slow down the recovery phase, and keep it as one continual movement. You'll be increasing your injury risk if you're stopping as it loses the fluidity of the motion, as the most vulnerable moment for your back is the first stroke, which is something you'll be doing continually.