Concept2 Forum

Hi all,

I know that there's no easy HR-based formula to figure out where your current zone 2 is and that one should get lactate measured etc., but ...

Simple question: would this (HM at a steady 2:10 pace) be zone 2 ? zone 2-ish ? totally not zone 2 ?

https://log.concept2.com/profile/1528069/log/70027054

(I'm male, 49yo, 1m73, 70Kg, rowing 4-5hrs per week, in case any of this matters).

Have you tried this calculator?

https://www.freespiritsrowing.com/forum ... calculator

I'm not really sure what you mean with Zone 2 but an average HR of 153 and above would be in the upper range of UT1 in my HR zones.

Hi,

Last 9k were around 160bpm, that is clearly no zone 2 (assuming you refer to a 5 zone model) if your max HR is not way above 200.

What is your max ever seen HR during hard sessions?

Thx to both.

Yeah, I probably forgot the most useful info: min HR 50 (that's really resting, like in bed straight after waking up, I think I've seen a 47 or twice) and max HR 183 (seen a few times on the PM5/in logs).

The Free Spirit calc gives me UT2 = [123 - 143] and UT1 = [144 - 156]

HornetMaX wrote: ↑

December 8th, 2022, 8:33 am

Thx to both.

Yeah, I probably forgot the most useful info: min HR 50 (that's really resting, like in bed straight after waking up, I think I've seen a 47 or twice) and max HR 183 (seen a few times on the PM5/in logs).

The Free Spirit calc gives me UT2 = [123 - 143] and UT1 = [144 - 156]

Very similar to my values of ~45/185.
Long sessions I do at ca. 130 - 135 average, maxing at low 140s. This is what you expect when talking about zone 2.
Bit harder sessions like UT1 I go for 140-145 average and maxing at mid 150s.
But very often I pace by feel as I have hard gym sessions as well, so HR is not my only guidance.

HornetMaX wrote: ↑

December 8th, 2022, 6:54 am

Hi all,

I know that there's no easy HR-based formula to figure out where your current zone 2 is and that one should get lactate measured etc., but ...

Simple question: would this (HM at a steady 2:10 pace) be zone 2 ? zone 2-ish ? totally not zone 2 ?

https://log.concept2.com/profile/1528069/log/70027054

(I'm male, 49yo, 1m73, 70Kg, rowing 4-5hrs per week, in case any of this matters).

All depends on your physiology.

Z2 and UT2 aren't the same but as an example Eric Murrays UT2 work was done between 160hr and 165hr while Bonds was high 130s low 140s if my memory is correct.

Your half marathon was solid and you were aerobic throughout

Sakly wrote: ↑

December 8th, 2022, 9:13 am

Very similar to my values of ~45/185.
Long sessions I do at ca. 130 - 135 average, maxing at low 140s. This is what you expect when talking about zone 2.
Bit harder sessions like UT1 I go for 140-145 average and maxing at mid 150s.

Similar min/max, but very different pace @ same HR I see

Spinal wrote: ↑

December 8th, 2022, 10:25 am

All depends on your physiology.

Z2 and UT2 aren't the same but as an example Eric Murrays UT2 work was done between 160hr and 165hr while Bonds was high 130s low 140s if my memory is correct.

Yeah, but what should I target then for long (1.0-1.5hrs) low-intensity sessions ? UT2 ? UT1 ?

Recently I was doing 1h (or even HM) @ 2:07 avg pace but that went above 160HR (like 163 agv, above that towards the end of the session).
Seemed a bit high so I tried the HM @ 2:10 steady pace, but maybe even that is not low enough.

HornetMaX wrote: ↑

December 8th, 2022, 11:05 am

Sakly wrote: ↑

December 8th, 2022, 9:13 am

Very similar to my values of ~45/185.
Long sessions I do at ca. 130 - 135 average, maxing at low 140s. This is what you expect when talking about zone 2.
Bit harder sessions like UT1 I go for 140-145 average and maxing at mid 150s.

Similar min/max, but very different pace @ same HR I see

Spinal wrote: ↑

December 8th, 2022, 10:25 am

All depends on your physiology.

Z2 and UT2 aren't the same but as an example Eric Murrays UT2 work was done between 160hr and 165hr while Bonds was high 130s low 140s if my memory is correct.

Yeah, but what should I target then for long (1.0-1.5hrs) low-intensity sessions ? UT2 ? UT1 ?

Recently I was doing 1h (or even HM) @ 2:07 avg pace but that went above 160HR (like 163 agv, above that towards the end of the session).
Seemed a bit high so I tried the HM @ 2:10 steady pace, but maybe even that is not low enough.

UT2 for low end base aerobic work
UT1 for top end aerobic work.

HornetMaX wrote: ↑

December 8th, 2022, 11:05 am

Sakly wrote: ↑

December 8th, 2022, 9:13 am

Very similar to my values of ~45/185.
Long sessions I do at ca. 130 - 135 average, maxing at low 140s. This is what you expect when talking about zone 2.
Bit harder sessions like UT1 I go for 140-145 average and maxing at mid 150s.

Similar min/max, but very different pace @ same HR I see

This depends on training level. Probably I am more trained so my body can deal better with the load.

HornetMaX wrote: ↑

December 8th, 2022, 11:05 am

Spinal wrote: ↑

December 8th, 2022, 10:25 am

All depends on your physiology.

Z2 and UT2 aren't the same but as an example Eric Murrays UT2 work was done between 160hr and 165hr while Bonds was high 130s low 140s if my memory is correct.

Yeah, but what should I target then for long (1.0-1.5hrs) low-intensity sessions ? UT2 ? UT1 ?

Recently I was doing 1h (or even HM) @ 2:07 avg pace but that went above 160HR (like 163 agv, above that towards the end of the session).
Seemed a bit high so I tried the HM @ 2:10 steady pace, but maybe even that is not low enough.

Rule of thumb: the longer the distance/time the slower the pace.
HR can be a guide, but there are other factors too.
In the end it is a question of your goal and how much work you do overall.
4-5h/week is not on the edge, so I would say you could do more challenging sessions without getting drained. But even this is highly individual depending on recovery.

You can use HR, Rating or Watts/Pace to define Zones, as you wish. Rate 20 would be borderline Zone 1/2.

But why bother, it's just using another name for Rate 20, this is rowing. What matters is not what it's called, but what you did. Which was 160W at 20 so Work 8W-min on 70kg body mass, 2.3W/kg.

jamesg wrote: ↑

December 8th, 2022, 1:34 pm

But why bother, it's just ...

Because your calculation is just a trivial exchange of numbers. It does not include what really matters! The heart rate is the best monitor we have on the load on our internal motor. That's what these HR zones tell you.

HornetMaX wrote: ↑

December 8th, 2022, 6:54 am

Simple question: would this (HM at a steady 2:10 pace) be zone 2 ? zone 2-ish ? totally not zone 2 ?

Whether a certain form of training you are doing can be classified as 'zone 2' matters if you are implementing a polarized training approach.

Zone classification can be based on HR reserve or on Wattage-over-FTP. Given the available data (in particular your recent PB's on 10k and HM) the latter approach is easy to implement. Your power over 10k is 181 W, and over the HM it is 169 W. Your functional threshold power is somewhere in-between, and can therefore be equated to roughly 175 W. Exercises at 55-75% of this level (96 - 131 W) count as Zone 2. The 159 W during your HM workout is well outside zone 2.

HornetMaX wrote: ↑

December 8th, 2022, 8:33 am

Thx to both.

Yeah, I probably forgot the most useful info: min HR 50 (that's really resting, like in bed straight after waking up, I think I've seen a 47 or twice) and max HR 183 (seen a few times on the PM5/in logs).

The Free Spirit calc gives me UT2 = [123 - 143] and UT1 = [144 - 156]

We have similar stats - resting HR around 48-52, max 185. I cap UT2 at 139; your heart rate got out of that zone pretty early in the half marathon.

MudSweatAndYears wrote: ↑

December 8th, 2022, 8:02 pm

Zone classification can be based on HR reserve or on Wattage-over-FTP. Given the available data (in particular your recent PB's on 10k and HM) the latter approach is easy to implement. Your power over 10k is 181 W, and over the HM it is 169 W. Your functional threshold power is somewhere in-between, and can therefore be equated to roughly 175 W. Exercises at 55-75% of this level (96 - 131 W) count as Zone 2. The 159 W during your HM workout is well outside zone 2.

Elizabeth wrote: ↑

December 8th, 2022, 9:56 pm

We have similar stats - resting HR around 48-52, max 185. I cap UT2 at 139; your heart rate got out of that zone pretty early in the half marathon.

Thx both. That would point to a much slower pace for me, something like 2:20-2:30.

It sounds painfully slow but yeah, I can give that a try.

I usually go for 4 sessions per week alternating "hard" ones (e.g. 3x 8min+2rest) and easy ones (1h steady, 1 HM steady), so that seems close enough to 80% easy and 20% hard.

On the upside, I can probably "work" (follow Teams meetings) during the easy sessions

HornetMaX wrote: ↑

December 9th, 2022, 5:24 am

Thx both. That would point to a much slower pace for me, something like 2:20-2:30.

It sounds painfully slow but yeah, I can give that a try.

I usually go for 4 sessions per week alternating "hard" ones (e.g. 3x 8min+2rest) and easy ones (1h steady, 1 HM steady), so that seems close enough to 80% easy and 20% hard.

On the upside, I can probably "work" (follow Teams meetings) during the easy sessions

My times are in my signature, and yesterday I had to slow it down to 2:13 to keep my heart rate where I wanted it - so it will be a step back.

I can't say that I've participated in Teams meetings, but I have taken online training classes that require listening but no participation. Now the hard training sessions are a completely different story.