Concept2 Forum

Hi there.
I've been a long time lurker and have decided to start a thread sharing my training journey for this year.
My goal - to break the New Zealand 500m Record - which currently stands at 1:14.3

It's a big ask, but hey it's nice to dream big and there would be no fun trying to do something if it was easy.

I'm posting this for two reasons, 1) to share my journey online and 2) hopefully I will get some tips and advice to help me with my quest!

A bit of background:
I'm 34yrs old. 102kg.
I'm short for a rower - and this is going to be the big obstacle for reaching my goal - I'm only 178cm.

I have done a bit of rowing in my youth (15 years ago!) I was a lightweight junior (I even went to the Crash-Bs) and then rowed OTW for a year. Before discovering weights and then I did 5-6 years of powerlifting and natural bodybuilding.

In the past 3-4 years I've become a dad (we have a 3 year old and a newborn) and moved onto a little farm 40mins from the closest gym. So any training pretty much stopped (I was lucky to get in 1 workout a fortnight).

BUT I've recently built a new home gym and a C2 erg was my first purchase
I had a crack at the 500m the day it arrived, I pulled a 1:22.5 which surprised me as I have NO fitness base and had done 1 strength session in the prior 2-3 months.

And as someone who likes goals and having a plan I thought 'let's give this a good crack'. It's been about 5 weeks now since I've started my training seriously (I say serious, but again remember I have a newborn, a farm to look after, my company I run etc etc) and last month I pulled a 1:19.5 (a PB for me).

That puts me at just under 700Watts for 500m.
To break the NZ record I need to hold 876watts.

My plan for the year is to build strength in the gym, do a lot of easy (146HR) rows to build that aerobic base, and then do a big / hard interval session each week.

Because of my size (or lack there of) I know things are going to be harder than if I was 6ft 5, so I may need to experiment here with rating higher or shortening the stroke.

Anyway, I'm happy to share my details about my training approach, and I welcome any advice.
Otherwise I'll update this every now and then with any major developments

Oh - and has anyone figured out the best way to start a 500m sprint?

Welcome Alex,

Hmm... running a farm with a 3yo and newborn... you don't do things by halves.

There are other far more accomplished sprinters than I who can give you proper advice, but the general mantra is that for 500m and below, you can never be too strong, while for distances above that, you can never be too fit.

Good luck with your training

Sorry to be brutal but its not going to happen you're to short.

You need to be huge and like 6 foot 5 and 120Kg.

The 500M is just pure brute strength with nowhere near the cardio required to sustain power for the 2000m

The power required is a cubic law, it just goes crazy below 1:20 pace. I used to hit 1:20 pace for a couple of hundred meters but anything faster was simply not possible. 183cm is still way to short.

Love to see you on RowPro however, we do intervals and I would love to see more Kiwi's online at 5:30pm every night of the week. Happy to watch you smoke us.

What's your 30min distance with a 146 average heartrate ?

AlexFergus wrote: ↑

March 13th, 2022, 9:42 pm

Hi there.
I've been a long time lurker and have decided to start a thread sharing my training journey for this year.
My goal - to break the New Zealand 500m Record - which currently stands at 1:14.3

It's a big ask, but hey it's nice to dream big and there would be no fun trying to do something if it was easy.

I'm posting this for two reasons, 1) to share my journey online and 2) hopefully I will get some tips and advice to help me with my quest!

A bit of background:
I'm 34yrs old. 102kg.
I'm short for a rower - and this is going to be the big obstacle for reaching my goal - I'm only 178cm.

I have done a bit of rowing in my youth (15 years ago!) I was a lightweight junior (I even went to the Crash-Bs) and then rowed OTW for a year. Before discovering weights and then I did 5-6 years of powerlifting and natural bodybuilding.

In the past 3-4 years I've become a dad (we have a 3 year old and a newborn) and moved onto a little farm 40mins from the closest gym. So any training pretty much stopped (I was lucky to get in 1 workout a fortnight).

BUT I've recently built a new home gym and a C2 erg was my first purchase
I had a crack at the 500m the day it arrived, I pulled a 1:22.5 which surprised me as I have NO fitness base and had done 1 strength session in the prior 2-3 months.

And as someone who likes goals and having a plan I thought 'let's give this a good crack'. It's been about 5 weeks now since I've started my training seriously (I say serious, but again remember I have a newborn, a farm to look after, my company I run etc etc) and last month I pulled a 1:19.5 (a PB for me).

That puts me at just under 700Watts for 500m.
To break the NZ record I need to hold 876watts.

My plan for the year is to build strength in the gym, do a lot of easy (146HR) rows to build that aerobic base, and then do a big / hard interval session each week.

Because of my size (or lack there of) I know things are going to be harder than if I was 6ft 5, so I may need to experiment here with rating higher or shortening the stroke.

Anyway, I'm happy to share my details about my training approach, and I welcome any advice.
Otherwise I'll update this every now and then with any major developments

Oh - and has anyone figured out the best way to start a 500m sprint?

Welcome Alex!

Already sub 1:20 after only a few weeks of training is outstanding, well done!
As Max already said, for 500m and shorter strength is by far most important, so your background in powerlifting helps a lot. On the other hand, if your strength is already close to your max potential it will be very hard to get 5 seconds faster, don't underestimate these extra 200W.

Aerobic fitness plays a role for 500m, but not that much, so I think you should focus on strength gains. Doing a lot of easy rows can easily have a negative influence on both your power and strength, especially with a farm and kid. The same for a hard interval training, it will cost you a lot of energy and build up fatigue.

I'm on a similar journey atm, after about 2.5 years of rowing with hardly any strength work I now have a focus on strength and building up to some sprint PBs in June (planned >400m 1' <13.5'' 100m and <1:18 500m). I'm still trying out what works best for me, and I've recently decided to stop my hard weekly intervals as I couldn't recover properly. I post my weekly training in the "What Training Have You Done Today?"-thread if you're interested.

Cameron Wharram is a regular poster here in the forum (btlifter) and one of the best erg sprinter in the world (1:11.9 500M), he has a powerlifting background too but also an outstanding aerobic engine (sub 6 2k), maybe he'll have some good advise too. He has a concurrent training approach like your plan for the year, lots of easy meters, some hard sessions and strength work. It obviously works great for him, but it won't work for everybody, I tried a similar approach and hit the wall pretty fast

Re 500m start: I prefer the "controlled fly-and-die" approach where you start a good bit faster than target average pace. At around 300m it will really start to hurt, rating goes up and pace slowly rises, at the end you feel like you can hardly pull the handle but struggle through these last meters. I think this is the fastest tactic for most sprinters, but pretty painful and the risk to stop around 300m is higher.

Re size: Yeah,this will be a problem, but nothing you can change so just give it a try and see where you will end. I can only remember 1 world class sprint rower below 1.90m, Sam Loch, around 1.85 if I remember right.
If you're interested, on instagram and youtube you can find videos and training sessions from world class sprinters, seach for @competitiocam (Cam Wharram), Phil Clapp, Chris Scott, Ross Love, Sam Loch (to name a few).

Good luck!

Good luck and welcome to the forum.

I love the ambition, and I have no idea if it's possible or not, but you're starting from a very good base. I'll give Cam a nudge and see if he can help you as there's no one better placed for tips.

Bernard Pfaller 187 93kg when he did this 1.13.7 also had a 5.52 2k.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5g3D9uF11a8


Height is clearly a big plus, but you can always try. For 500, the nmr 1 indicator is raw power/speed. To pull a 1.14 you need to be looking at a 1.04 lowpull to have a chance. Fitness helps, but without the raw power it won’t happen.
Squats, deads, rows are needed. Get very strong.

Do not row to much, focus on raw power mostly.

Welcome, Alex - good luck!

I have no idea if your target is realistic or not. But then none of us knows what we have the potential to do until we put in the requisite hours to try to get there!

As Martin mentioned, my approach is pretty simple Basically 3 elements to it, in no particular order:

1. Loads of aerobic base work. This doesn't need to be on the rower! In fact, while if you were targeting a 2k I would suggest keeping most of your aerobic work on the rower, the technique is significantly different enough between easy rowing and sprinting that my current belief is that it may actually be preferential to do most of your aerobic work OFF the rower.
2. Try to become as strong as possible.
3. Practice. Specificity matters.A lot. Personally, I don't see a lot of benefit to 500m, 1k, or longer intervals (if focus is on the 500). Instead, I would encourage focusing on efforts near race pace. E.g. 8x150m@ race pace with 2 minutes rest between pieces. A big caveat though is that - this sort of practice is TOUGH. Personally I will only do it for a few months at a time (1, maximum 2 sessions/week). Much more/longer than that and I would burn out, quickly.

Again, good luck, and don't hesitate to reach out with any specific questions!

max_ratcliffe wrote: ↑

March 14th, 2022, 3:37 am

Welcome Alex,

Hmm... running a farm with a 3yo and newborn... you don't do things by halves.

There are other far more accomplished sprinters than I who can give you proper advice, but the general mantra is that for 500m and below, you can never be too strong, while for distances above that, you can never be too fit.

Good luck with your training

It's just a small 'hobby farm' (10 cattle, 20 sheep, chooks etc). So it's not too stressful The kids on the other hand...!

Carl Watts wrote: ↑

March 14th, 2022, 4:35 am

Sorry to be brutal but its not going to happen you're to short.

You need to be huge and like 6 foot 5 and 120Kg.

The 500M is just pure brute strength with nowhere near the cardio required to sustain power for the 2000m

The power required is a cubic law, it just goes crazy below 1:20 pace. I used to hit 1:20 pace for a couple of hundred meters but anything faster was simply not possible. 183cm is still way to short.

Love to see you on RowPro however, we do intervals and I would love to see more Kiwi's online at 5:30pm every night of the week. Happy to watch you smoke us.

What's your 30min distance with a 146 average heartrate ?

Appreciate the thoughts. Ha, I now have extra motiovation to give this a solid crack! I know 1:14 is a tough ask, but I'll see how close I can get at least.
In 18 months I enter a new age group and the record for that is 1:18.5 - so that could be the fall back option at least.

I understand the increase in power needed for those last 5-6 seconds. Thats why I'm doing all my training and calculations in watts.

RowPro - I'm not familiar with that? 5:30pm though is the hurt zone with the baby and toddler!! I train around 3pm NZT

30min at 146hr capped - I did 7124m the other day. I have only been doing these 30min aerobic rows for a few weeks, so I doubt that number is very good?

MartinSH4321 wrote: ↑

March 14th, 2022, 5:08 am

Already sub 1:20 after only a few weeks of training is outstanding, well done!
As Max already said, for 500m and shorter strength is by far most important, so your background in powerlifting helps a lot. On the other hand, if your strength is already close to your max potential it will be very hard to get 5 seconds faster, don't underestimate these extra 200W.

Aerobic fitness plays a role for 500m, but not that much, so I think you should focus on strength gains. Doing a lot of easy rows can easily have a negative influence on both your power and strength, especially with a farm and kid. The same for a hard interval training, it will cost you a lot of energy and build up fatigue.

I'm on a similar journey atm, after about 2.5 years of rowing with hardly any strength work I now have a focus on strength and building up to some sprint PBs in June (planned >400m 1' <13.5'' 100m and <1:18 500m). I'm still trying out what works best for me, and I've recently decided to stop my hard weekly intervals as I couldn't recover properly. I post my weekly training in the "What Training Have You Done Today?"-thread if you're interested.

Cameron Wharram is a regular poster here in the forum (btlifter) and one of the best erg sprinter in the world (1:11.9 500M), he has a powerlifting background too but also an outstanding aerobic engine (sub 6 2k), maybe he'll have some good advise too. He has a concurrent training approach like your plan for the year, lots of easy meters, some hard sessions and strength work. It obviously works great for him, but it won't work for everybody, I tried a similar approach and hit the wall pretty fast

Re 500m start: I prefer the "controlled fly-and-die" approach where you start a good bit faster than target average pace. At around 300m it will really start to hurt, rating goes up and pace slowly rises, at the end you feel like you can hardly pull the handle but struggle through these last meters. I think this is the fastest tactic for most sprinters, but pretty painful and the risk to stop around 300m is higher.

Re size: Yeah,this will be a problem, but nothing you can change so just give it a try and see where you will end. I can only remember 1 world class sprint rower below 1.90m, Sam Loch, around 1.85 if I remember right.
If you're interested, on instagram and youtube you can find videos and training sessions from world class sprinters, seach for @competitiocam (Cam Wharram), Phil Clapp, Chris Scott, Ross Love, Sam Loch (to name a few).

Good luck!

Thanks!

Strength, whats surprising is I've only been back training hard and heavy for a few weeks, but already my numbers are back to my old PLing days. Saying that, I'm 15kgs heavier than I was back then.

So background numbers:

Lightweight Junior (17,18,19 yrs etc @ 75kg tops) I pulled a 6:27 2000m. A 3:02 1000m This was all erg training, no weights.

Powerlifting - mid 20's - 85kg-90kg - I did a 250kg raw competition squat (no suit, no wraps etc). and a 250kg deadlift.

Fast forward to 2022 - I'm mid 30's without any serious training for 2-3 years...
I did 3x 250kg deadlift a few weeks ago.
Yesterday I did 190kg box squat for 3, then did 3 sets of 200kg deadlift for 8 reps each with 2 min rest

So the strength is coming back fast.
I really need that squat back to 250kg+ though.

My training program is as follows (at least the plan is, my boy is epiletic, and 2 weeks ago we had a medical event so I only got in 3 sessions that week for example):
Monday - Power erg session and or race time trial
Tuesday - lower body weights
Wed - upper body weights
Thurs - Lactic Acid Erg
Fri - Jump/Explosive/Plyo stuff + Aerobic Row
Weekend - off

I'm also using the oura Ring, HRV, Polar Vantage etc to help track recovery - though after 15 years of Training I am rather tuned into my body and know pretty fast when to take a day off.

I'll check out your log on here! Theres a ton of info on here, lots to work through - it's great!

Cameron Wharram - wow, incredible time! I'll look into his stuff thanks.

And thanks for all the other names, I am familiar with Sam Loch but not the others so I'll do some digging!

Starts - oh I was referring to the first 5-10 strokes. My race plan is pretty simple - 10 hard strokes, settle into target pace and hold - anything left at 100m then pick it up. But what about the start? Is the best approach shorter strokes? Or full length? Or a combo?

btlifter wrote: ↑

March 14th, 2022, 3:17 pm

Welcome, Alex - good luck!

I have no idea if your target is realistic or not. But then none of us knows what we have the potential to do until we put in the requisite hours to try to get there!

As Martin mentioned, my approach is pretty simple Basically 3 elements to it, in no particular order:

1. Loads of aerobic base work. This doesn't need to be on the rower! In fact, while if you were targeting a 2k I would suggest keeping most of your aerobic work on the rower, the technique is significantly different enough between easy rowing and sprinting that my current belief is that it may actually be preferential to do most of your aerobic work OFF the rower.
2. Try to become as strong as possible.
3. Practice. Specificity matters.A lot. Personally, I don't see a lot of benefit to 500m, 1k, or longer intervals (if focus is on the 500). Instead, I would encourage focusing on efforts near race pace. E.g. 8x150m@ race pace with 2 minutes rest between pieces. A big caveat though is that - this sort of practice is TOUGH. Personally I will only do it for a few months at a time (1, maximum 2 sessions/week). Much more/longer than that and I would burn out, quickly.

Again, good luck, and don't hesitate to reach out with any specific questions!

Very good points Cam!
re 1.) I think you're right, I made the same experience. Even if done very easy, lots of meters on the rower had an inpact on my back, esp. the lower back, and hindered proper strength work like deadlifts and squats. The bike works much better for me.
What I think is important to mention here (for Alex): As far as I know most other elite erg sprinters do much less base meters than you do. If the only goal is 500m I would recommend to take care that these base meters don't have a negative effect on weight and sprint sessions.

re 2. and 3.)
Very true!

My current approach (which I often neglected in the past) is to also integrate phase potentiation. For me it's hard to focus on one sort of training (strength) and accept that I lose something on the other side (rowerg fitness), so I often tried to at least fully maintain a skill that's currently out of focus, which often ended badly
So my simplified plan for the next couple of months looks like that:
- building up mass (atm I'm close to the end)
- building up strength with this extra mass (2 mesos)
- building up power for 4 weeks (with extra focus on sprint intervals on the rower)
- Crushing all sprint PBs
- aerobic base work almost always on the bike (indoor or outdoor)

Fair points, Martin.

You are correct that I'm an outlier as far as total volume of base work is concerned. I do believe that is a significant reason why I am able to outperform some others, though. But of course that's speculative!

Still, of the 3 components I mentioned I think that base work is the least impactful - especially short term. Nonetheless, I maintain that the more each of the 3 components I mentioned can be improved (WITHOUT a deleterious effect on the other components) the better off one will be.

The degree to which any individual is able to focus on (and recover from!) each those will vary tremendously, of course.

AlexFergus wrote: ↑

March 14th, 2022, 3:59 pm

...
Monday - Power erg session and or race time trial
Tuesday - lower body weights
Wed - upper body weights
Thurs - Lactic Acid Erg
Fri - Jump/Explosive/Plyo stuff + Aerobic Row
Weekend - off

Any chance of shifting the Monday session to Sunday? Give you a day of rest between the hard leg drive on Monday and the lower body weights ?

Else consider doing the lower body weights on Monday after the "Power erg session and or race time trial". Doubling up will not be as bad as back to back hard leg sessions, lifters don't work the same muscles 2 days in a row for a reason.

Likewise consider doing the "Jump/Explosive/Plyo stuff" on Thurs after the "Thurs - Lactic Acid Erg" rather than on Friday.

Goal, give your body time for growth after you trigger adaptation with a hard session.

Example alternative schedule: (3 hard leg/hip/back days with one or two days recovery after each session).

Sunday - Power erg session and or race time trial
Monday - slow aerobic work (row, bike, jog, 70% max HR) or rest
Tuesday - lower body weights (legs, back/hips)
Wed - upper body weights (no back/hips)
Thurs - Lactic Acid Erg; Jump/Explosive/Plyo stuff
Friday - slow aerobic work (row, bike, jog, 70% max HR)
Sat - off

Good luck with the goal. Glad you are in tune with your training and know when additional rest is required.

btlifter wrote: ↑

March 14th, 2022, 3:17 pm

Welcome, Alex - good luck!

I have no idea if your target is realistic or not. But then none of us knows what we have the potential to do until we put in the requisite hours to try to get there!

As Martin mentioned, my approach is pretty simple Basically 3 elements to it, in no particular order:

1. Loads of aerobic base work. This doesn't need to be on the rower! In fact, while if you were targeting a 2k I would suggest keeping most of your aerobic work on the rower, the technique is significantly different enough between easy rowing and sprinting that my current belief is that it may actually be preferential to do most of your aerobic work OFF the rower.
2. Try to become as strong as possible.
3. Practice. Specificity matters.A lot. Personally, I don't see a lot of benefit to 500m, 1k, or longer intervals (if focus is on the 500). Instead, I would encourage focusing on efforts near race pace. E.g. 8x150m@ race pace with 2 minutes rest between pieces. A big caveat though is that - this sort of practice is TOUGH. Personally I will only do it for a few months at a time (1, maximum 2 sessions/week). Much more/longer than that and I would burn out, quickly.

Again, good luck, and don't hesitate to reach out with any specific questions!

Sorry mate I missed this one earlier!

Cool, your 3 points are pretty close to what I have worked into my plan. I don't have a stationary bike or treadmill, but I do a bit of hunting and farm work - so there's aerobic work there.

Strength - yup this is the key pillar of my program. Numbers are going up really well of late. Did 190kg deep box squats for 3 reps last week. 250kg deadlifts for reps etc. I expect to be back around 250kg+ in the squats and 280kg+ for deadlifts later this year.

Specificity - got it. All my intervals are short. I think the longest might be a 400m, but typically all very short stuff.
I'm also doing a lot of experimenting, with technique, and settings (foot setting, damper etc) trying to learn what gives me the best power for such a short row.

Intervals - I totally get it, they really do hit the body hard. My main 2 focuses for each week are my lower body strength day and my power interval session (or my time trial race). I do work in an anerobic interval session at the end of the week, some days though I've found my numbers are way off - but I still get the same latic acid burn - I'm not sure if it's worth doing the session if I feel sluggish (i.e. will I still be getting a training effect, or am I better off only doing these workouts if I'm hitting new PB's for the session).
I know if I do a power session or strength session and I know I'm not firing on all cylinders then I simply pull the pin.

But I'm not sure if that approach should be taken on a workout that isn't trying to set new power or strength levels?

MartinSH4321 wrote: ↑

March 15th, 2022, 4:19 am

Very good points Cam!
re 1.) I think you're right, I made the same experience. Even if done very easy, lots of meters on the rower had an inpact on my back, esp. the lower back, and hindered proper strength work like deadlifts and squats. The bike works much better for me.
What I think is important to mention here (for Alex): As far as I know most other elite erg sprinters do much less base meters than you do. If the only goal is 500m I would recommend to take care that these base meters don't have a negative effect on weight and sprint sessions.

re 2. and 3.)
Very true!

My aerobic work is very limited.
I am for one 30min session a week, and then there may be a few 5min warmups/cool downs before some interval sessions. but then again last week I didn't even do a 30min session at all.
I also cap my HR, so its very easy work. I figure it's helping build that aerobic base, helping with recovery, helping with technique, and helping with those other 'experience' things such as building callouses on the hands, and good flexibility in the joints etc.

as the year goes on, I may drop out those aerboic sessions, or do them less frequently. I haven't been rowing for 10 years, and haven't done any fitness work for 5 years, so I feel like it's important for me mentally and physically to build that aerboic base, even though it is a short event. And I'm seeing the benefits already, resting HR is dropping, but I'm putting out more watts each session despite capping my HR to 146.