Where should I ache

[Wilpert]

Ok,
As per my previous post, I'm new to rowing but not new to training, as I have a wattbike and treadmill and I have been a keen runner and cyclist over the years. So I can say that I am used to suffering a bit.

I'm trying to develop my rowing style and I' aware of the importance of not getting too carried away at this early stage.

As stated above, I'm used to aching here and there but I wondered, if my calves ache a fair bit as well as my upper arms and shoulders, does this signify that i am likely to be using the right muscles for my rowing?
My quads don't seem to be aching much at all and I was expecting that they should if I am getting it right?

[max_ratcliffe]

Ok,
As per my previous post, I'm new to rowing but not new to training, as I have a wattbike and treadmill and I have been a keen runner and cyclist over the years. So I can say that I am used to suffering a bit.

I'm trying to develop my rowing style and I' aware of the importance of not getting too carried away at this early stage.

As stated above, I'm used to aching here and there but I wondered, if my calves ache a fair bit as well as my upper arms and shoulders, does this signify that i am likely to be using the right muscles for my rowing?
My quads don't seem to be aching much at all and I was expecting that they should if I am getting it right?

Your quads shoukd be doing most of the work, but if you're already well trained in other activities, your quads probably won't get doms.

Some soreness between your shoulder blades is probably inevitable. Sore calves might suggest over compressing at the catch so keep an eye on that. Dark horse suggests never raising your heels but we don't all have the mobility to do that.

[mict450]

You received some great advice on your previous thread. Rowing technique is not intuitive, but is something that must be practiced & perfected.

Rowing stresses the large muscles of the body; the quads, glutes, lats, etc. Your stress on your arms & shoulders indicates faulty mechanics.

Concentrate on technique before trying to set personal bests. Faulty technique is difficult to correct later on. Ask me how I know.

Good luck on your erging journey.

[Wilpert]

yes my quads are pretty solid through my cycling and regular use of the wattbike and the occasional squats that I do to keep me in shape.
I do expect to ache a bit due to age, so that's not a problem for me.

I am definitely going to practice my form to try to get it right. I guess I will know its right when it feels right.
I have looked at some of the youtube videos, dark horse etc. which seem pretty good.

[Tony Cook]

Sore calves indicates ‘poor’ technique. Means you are pushing off the balls of your feet rather than your heels. As said this can be from over compressing at the catch. From an old broken ankle that heel lifts before the other one and if I only compressed as far as both heels stay down I’d only do half a stroke. The main thing is to get your heels down as quickly as you can and feel the weight in them.
As for arms and shoulders, it depends where. Whilst the arms and shoulders are (meant to be) only doing 10% of the work you are still holding your arms up against gravity. If the feeling is on the outside of your arms and front/outside of your shoulders it is probably just from those muscles getting some work they are not used to.

[Sakly]

Hi,

aching muscles depend on their conditioning level of training in the past so there is no "typical" aching for everyone.
As I also started very fresh, 3 weeks ago, I can tell my observations on my own body. My training background is very intense bodyweight training for years, so I have very stable and strong legs and back.
After my first longer sessions (>=5k) I felt pumped legs and lower back, but not aching. Only after my HM on the rower I felt my lats and also my forearm and biceps left side.
Calves were fine in each case. I try to press with complete foot, not on toes. My heels lift only slightly when fully compressed.

[Wilpert]

I really like the advice on the feet being kept flat as possible, i did notice my feet lifting away slightly, so there is one lesson learned.
I also like the advice from the dark horse, re the arms being kept straight, I have yet to try that technique but I am assuming it means that arms should be straight up until its time to pull back when the legs are fully straightened out.

I'm starting to feel that i am on strictly come dancing, I really never knew this could be so specific. I hope I do manage to master this stuff as I'm already getting the temptation to challenge myself to some short distances, like a 10 k and then set my sights on a an HM, so I will need to get this right or i can see myself ending up on the floor with a rowing machine on top of me

[Sakly]

[...]or i can see myself ending up on the floor with a rowing machine on top of me

Absolutely - get the basics before starting something >5k.
I am no expert in rowing by far, but if you have some body awareness and get understanding of rowing mechanics it shouldn't take much time as a sportsman. I assume it should be possible in similar time as it was for me, took only 3-4 sessions. After that you will be no expert, but you directly know where the issues are and what you have to work on

[mitchel674]

Too much tension in the arms, shoulders and upper back is a common novice mistake. Focus on feeling like you are hanging from the handle during the first half of your drive. Let the large latissimus muscle bear the connection between the handle and your legs during the drive while your core is engaged. Shoulders and arms should almost feel loose.

Eric Murray always tells us to "feel the hang" during his row along videos.

[jamesg]

I have yet to try that technique but I am assuming it means that arms should be straight up until its time to pull back when the legs are fully straightened out.

That is the one and only rowing technique. Legs are far stronger than arms and shoulders. So we use the legs first in the stroke, to get moving asap and make the chain engage soon even tho' the flywheel is spinning fast. They do about 70-80% of the total work.

You can see this by doing the backstop drill during warm-up. Typically, arms only give rating 60, Watts 50; adding swing gives rating 40, 80W; the complete stroke, rate 20, 200W.

The recovery sequence: arms away, then swing, then slide, is essential to reaching a strong posture at the catch, giving a fast catch and consequently a long stroke. This reduces the forces needed for any given work load, and puts that load on the legs, which can carry it easily.

Quality is measured by Watts/Rating: ten is OK.

[Wilpert]

Well,
I am working on my rowing form, I did 12 intervals at 500mts with one minute rests.

Each one was performed at a different resistance but I tried to keep the S/R roughly the same, so as get a good comparison.

I tried the looser grip, that seems ok
I tried to keep my heels rooted to the spot. That wasn’t too bad, they lifted a bit but not too much.

I tried to keep back straight and lean in at 1oclock at the catch and 11 o’clock on the return. Again ok but it felt very cramped when I tried to lean into the catch.

My main struggles were:
very hard to keep my S/R below 28. Especially on the lower resistance where it was flying up to over 30.

Hard to use the legs for pulling and found myself using my arms a bit too much although I was working on keeping them straight.
I feel that my body shape isn’t helping because I have short legs and a longer body, ie when I sit down I probably look average height but I’m still short.
My legs are pretty strong from cycling. Strong quads and calves. So maybe I’m not realising that my legs are doing more than I realise?

Questions:

Do I keep arms straight right up until I start pulling back at the end of the stroke?

Is it ok to feel the pull from my arms just before my legs get straightened out?

I do hope this makes sense and I appreciate all the input.

Fwiw I feel my aerobic fitness is carrying me through as I’m used to wrecking myself on short time trials on the Wattbike and these can be pretty tough so I can get my heart rate up there and keep it up when I need to.
I’ve done a 25 mile tt on the road and had an average of 185bpm and I was over 50 so I’m feeling it’s just technique that’s holding me back.

[Dangerscouse]

So maybe I’m not realising that my legs are doing more than I realise?

Questions:

Do I keep arms straight right up until I start pulling back at the end of the stroke?

Is it ok to feel the pull from my arms just before my legs get straightened out?

I do hope this makes sense and I appreciate all the input.

Fwiw I feel my aerobic fitness is carrying me through as I’m used to wrecking myself on short time trials on the Wattbike and these can be pretty tough so I can get my heart rate up there and keep it up when I need to.
I’ve done a 25 mile tt on the road and had an average of 185bpm and I was over 50 so I’m feeling it’s just technique that’s holding me back.

If you've got strong legs, you won't notice the work they're doing until you really thrash them in a 100% maximum session and the lactic reminds you of what they're doing.

My arms have a very slight bend in them until they pass over my knees, and then they start to break and bend.

It's a blend of muscular emphasis so don't think that you have all legs, or all arms. As your arms are slightly tensed in preparation you will feel a pull, so it's all about the emphasis. You'll also feel this as your background sounds very much lower body dominant, so you're adjusting to the effort.

Your aerobic fitness is evident in the higher stroke rate. Lower rates are more based on strength, and having good aerobic fitness is a better place to be as it takes longer to build than erg specific strength.

[Wilpert]

Thanks yet again

I did a short session this morning and after cooling down I did a short video.

I’d like to post it for comments and see what folks think.
I’m expecting a blasting so no problem there but I’m not sure how to post stuff atm.

Any pointers appreciated.

Ta.

[Dangerscouse]

Thanks yet again

I did a short session this morning and after cooling down I did a short video.

I’d like to post it for comments and see what folks think.
I’m expecting a blasting so no problem there but I’m not sure how to post stuff atm.

Any pointers appreciated.

Ta.

It's best to post YouTube, and then post the link here.

[Tsnor]

I tried the looser grip, that seems ok

Good you want a loose, relaxed grip. Sometimes "play piano" with your fingers on recovery part of stroke.

I tried to keep my heels rooted to the spot. That wasn’t too bad, they lifted a bit but not too much.

Good. That's what you want. Measured force during the power part of the stroke for elite rowers is from balls of feet plus heels, so get heel down and then drive with entire foot.

I tried to keep back straight and lean in at 1oclock at the catch and 11 o’clock on the return. Again ok but it felt very cramped when I tried to lean into the catch.

Check SEATING position. Try rocking forward, your butt should be pivoting over in a way you can feel on the seat every stroke. Good video on this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00bIjs3FblE look at 1:58. Makes a huge difference. Then over time you will naturally get more hip flexibility and you're set.

Do I keep arms straight right up until I start pulling back at the end of the stroke?

yes ! Keep your hand position so you could draw a straight line from your shoulders, down arms, hands, handle, chain, ending in the hole the chain passes through. Watch the chain go through the hole, it should not move up/down or left/right on either drive or recovery.

Is it ok to feel the pull from my arms just before my legs get straightened out?

Yes ! That's peak force pulling through your core, shoulder arms and hands. Your arms should be HANGING just like hanging from a pullup bar. Strong back, ZERO arm muscle pull, all hang. Rest those arm muscles, you'll use them after the hip swing.

I feel my aerobic fitness is carrying me through ... so I’m feeling it’s just technique that’s holding me back.

Think you are right. Also maybe some rowing muscles not used during your other sports (core? back?) are just now growing. In in few months they will be in balance too. And you may also pick up some additional muscle efficiency for the rowing motions and a bit more vo2...