New to rowing; looking for advice on targets

[penkethj]

Hi everyone. I’m completely new to rowing and just looking for a bit of advice as to whether a couple of the goals I’m planning for myself are realistic. Will give as much background as I can.

I am 34 and 6 foot 3 weighing 205 lbs. Up until about a year ago I did a lot of long distance running and cycling. Have covered marathon distance runs and numerous century cycles over varying terrain. My speed in both disciplines has always been ok, but I’ve never thought I really had the build for either. I’ll never be that skinny/lean build.

Due to a stress fracture in tibia I had to stop running and cycling early last year. Unfortunately both now seem to agitate this injury. Therefor at Xmas I bought myself a concept 2 rowing machine and have starting training on that.

Luckily this doesn’t seem to effect my injuries at all and I’ve really enjoyed it so far. Have done about 3 weeks of training so far. Ive been mainly working on my technique but so far my PBs are as follows;

2000m - 7:29.7

5000m - 20:34

10,000m - 42:57

Distance wise I can comfortably do an hour which gets me around 13,000m.

Ive already done a bit of research on drag factor and currently have mine set at around 125-130.

Based on where I’m currently at, I feel like there are two goals I would like to hit this year;

1) A marathon row (preferably in May during the challenge period)

2) Sub 7 min 2000m

For the marathon I have made a 4 month plan building from where I am now, to marathon distance in early May. I’ve used the same kind of plan as I used for running. Building the long row each week with the occasional step back to consolidate. Increasing total distance each week and then tapering a couple weeks before.

I feel like the marathon will be an easier goal because from what I’ve read so far dropping below 7 mins for a newb is a real challenge and requires a fair amount of work.

I can train however many days a week I need to.

So my questions are; Are these goals achievable? And does anybody have any tips for me? As I say I’m happy to admit I’m a proper newb so would really appreciate any advice.

[mitchel674]

Welcome and congrats on the new rower!

Given you background and current fitness, I would guess that your marathon quest during the challenge month will be attainable. You have a well thought out 4 month plan which should get you where you need to be. I was able to complete my first marathon with a 12 week modified running marathon plan which gradually built up distance rows and incorporated a two week taper before race day. Your running experience will help you greatly here.

Sub 7 minutes is another story. I doubt your long, rows for marathon preparation will help you in that quest. In fact, your marathon training will likely slow your 2k efforts. The only thing in your favor is your current speed after only 3 weeks of rowing. Just keep in mind that sub 7 minutes is a long way from your current 7:39.

I would focus on marathon training now and knock that out during the marathon challenge. Then turn your sights to some shorter distance interval work to get yourself back to training for your 2k effort. You will certainly have the aerobic base to get you there.

Good luck and keep us posted!

[Ombrax]

Welcome to the forum!

I'd like to encourage you on your goal of a sub 7 2k, but, to emphasize Mitchel's point about the difference between a 7:29.7 2k and a 6:59 2k here are some numbers:

7:29.7 is a 500m pace of 1:52.425 Since the C2 power calculator (see link below) only goes to one place beyond the decimal point lets round that to 1:52.4 (which isn't shabby at all, for a newbie) which gives us 246.5 watts

6:59 is 1:44.75 pace. Again, round to get 1:44.8, which works out to 304.1 watts. So, to eliminate that "measly" 40 seconds you'll have to increase your power by a factor of x 1.23 That's doable, but not a trivial job.

Good Luck and happy rowing : )

Here's the link for the calculator: https://www.concept2.com/indoor-rowers/ ... calculator

[jamesg]

Suggest you start by learning to row. If you're anywhere near water, a boat club can help.

The discontinuous rowing action is unfamiliar to most; the style used on slides ensures that the two legs together do most of the work in a very short time.

Using the legs makes it easy from a force point of vew, but very taxing as to CV load, since our leg and hip muscles are large and strong. So we keep the rating down.

With a good stroke, the pull long, fast and hard, your goals will be quite easy, at your size and age. The usual quality measure is Watts/Rating. Get this ratio to 12 as soon as possible, and use it at maximum rating 23 in training. It's hard work, so short intervals are indicated, five to fifteen minutes.

Here are some training plans explicitly for rowing:
https://www.britishrowing.org/indoor-ro ... ing-plans/
This shows how it's done on the erg:
https://www.concept2.com/indoor-rowers/ ... que-videos

[Dangerscouse]

Welcome to the forum.

Training for a marathon (often referred to as FM ie Full Marathon) is something that I suspect you'll be able to do relatively comfortably, given your background.

You're a good size for rowing, and have a great aerobic background. As you will know from running, you're training for the last 10k of a FM, but it's something not too many of us ever manage to do.

In terms of nutrition, hydration etc I assume it's very similar to running, and do you have any issues with the seat for an hour or longer? I'd thoroughly recommend liquid chalk, sweatbands and a big 18" fan for when you do it.

Also do you use a HR monitor? Training to general zones has worked very well for me, but it's not essential. You can also use a rough guide as being able to hold a conversation being the ideal sustainable pace. If you can't, you're going too fast and will burn out long before the end of the FM

[KeithT]

I encourage anyone willing to try to go for the sub 7:00 2K as it's sort of a "Gold Standard" but as others have said it's not easy and it's a different kind of discomfort (Pain). I think you will get to the FM fairly quickly based on Background, the sub 7:00 might take some time. We are similar size but came to the ERG from different places - I was into weights/CrossFit so I adapted faster to the shorter rows but delved into the longer stuff later - it took some time, I think you will have the opposite experience. Regardless welcome to the world of ERGing.

[penkethj]

Wow, firstly thanks for all your responses and welcoming messages. Was not expecting to get so many replies so soon. Seems like there is a good community on here with lots of helpful people who also seem to have loads of experience.

I feel like from what I’ve read so far both of my goals are attainable, with the sub 7 min 2k being the harder of the two. This is what I presumed and I know I’m gonna have to put in the work and not expect this to be a short term target.

mitchel674, Thanks for your encouragement and advice. I think concentrating on the marathon first and then switching training is a great idea and one that I will definitely be doing. Seems like the distance/time I’ll be putting in training for the marathon will give me a good base and then I can adjust my plan to target the quicker stuff.

Ombrax, Again thanks for the warm welcome and encouragement. Also thanks for breaking down the numbers that’s really useful. I am very much a numbers guy and have trained to watts in cycling before. Having worked with watts on the bike I can fully appreciate how adding 50/60 watts over that length of time is going to be a real challenge. One that I will hopefully embrace though.

Jamesg, thanks for the advice. Unfortunately due to work commitments and having two kids under 5, time is one of my biggest enemies in training. Therefore joining a boat club is currently out of the question and the four walls of my garage are my pain cave. I haven’t looked into watt/rating numbers so that’s something I will have to research. Thanks for the tip.

dangerscouse, Thanks for the welcome and advice. Your dead right about a FM being about the last 10k. I learnt that the hard way on my first couple of running marathons . Yeah I think I’ll stick to similar nutrition/hydration as with running and see how that goes. I’ve got a massive fan that I use when on the turbo trainer so will def get that on too. Don’t currently have any issue with the seat but only done an hour max at the moment. Will see how it feels on the longer ones to come.
Yeah have always trained with a HR monitor so know my HR zones and how to train with them. Will be useful I think.

KeithT, Thanks for the reply Keith. Strangely the discomfort (pain) you talk about is one of my strengths. I’ve always been the slightly sadistic one in cycling/running who likes the big climbs and who weirdly enjoys putting themselves on the absolute limit. The 2k test I did made me feel sick and knew I emptied the tank. Don’t know why but I enjoy that side of it. Lol. Looking at some of your PBS is actually really inspiring. I’d feel proud of those times at 34 so fair play for nailing them post 50 .


One thing that I am finding funny at the moment is the noob gains I’m getting. Over the last 3/4 weeks nearly every workout I’ve done at any distance/time is a PB. I know this is something that will very quickly level out and stop happening and I actually look forward to that. At the moment because at the start of the workout I can see i can PB I can’t help myself but push. Which I know I shouldn’t be doing every time. So once my times plateau I can just concentrate on the grind. Lol.

Once again thanks all and I will update with any developments as and when.

[bennyhanna]

Good luck on the journey. Like you I am relatively new to rowing and am working towards a sub 7 min 2k from my current 7:30. On the seat front I got the Hornet Watersports seat pad. It is pretty thin but provides plenty of cushion for what I need. https://www.amazon.com/Hornet-Waterspor ... 01D10YY0C/. Dark Horse rowing has lots of details here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AU3qlPYDtG8

[btlifter]

Welcome!

Feel free to post a video of your form to the forum. Many here will be able and willing to give very useful feedback. And the closer to the beginning of your journey you are, the easier it will he to make adjustments.

Your form might be great! But chances are there are some major inefficiencies that - by cleaning up - could provide some "free speed".

[penkethj]

Good luck on the journey. Like you I am relatively new to rowing and am working towards a sub 7 min 2k from my current 7:30. On the seat front I got the Hornet Watersports seat pad. It is pretty thin but provides plenty of cushion for what I need. https://www.amazon.com/Hornet-Waterspor ... 01D10YY0C/. Dark Horse rowing has lots of details here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AU3qlPYDtG8

Thanks bennyhanna I’ll have a look. Did my first 15,000m row on Sunday and felt ok but was starting to get a little but of numbness/aching from left side of butt. Will see if this improves over next few long rows.

[penkethj]

Welcome!

Feel free to post a video of your form to the forum. Many here will be able and willing to give very useful feedback. And the closer to the beginning of your journey you are, the easier it will he to make adjustments.

Your form might be great! But chances are there are some major inefficiencies that - by cleaning up - could provide some "free speed".

Thanks btlifter I will try and do this at some point. I’m assuming a side profile is the best angle to capture. Might be a bit tricky due to the narrow space I’m using in my garage but will see what I can do.

[penkethj]

In terms of my progress so far I did my longest row so far on Sunday which was 15,000 metres. Took me 1 hr 7 mins so wasn’t quick but was just trying to keep it nice and steady. Going to keep slowly increasing the long row most weeks and try to get the first half marathon in late Feb.

Not going to do any more 2000m tests for a while but did push on a 5000m effort today. When I started rowing in December my first 5000m was nearly 23 mins. Went sub 20 mins for the first time today so was really pleased with that.
I Feel like my experience pacing in running has really helped. I tend to row negative splits in most rows where I’m going for a stronger effort. Is this the most efficient way in rowing as it is in running.

Here are the numbers from my row today. Pacing/negative split is pretty representative of most of my rows.

Time Meters Pace Watts Cal/Hr S/M
19:43.9 5,000m 1:58.3 211 1025 27 170
4:00.2 1,000m 2:00.1 202 995 26 158
3:59.6 2,000m 1:59.8 204 1000 27 163
3:57.8 3,000m 1:58.9 208 1016 26 170
3:55.4 4,000m 1:57.7 215 1038 28 178
3:50.9 5,000m 1:55.4 227 1082 31 184

[Ombrax]

I tend to row negative splits in most rows where I’m going for a stronger effort. Is this the most efficient way in rowing as it is in running.

As I'm sure you already know, the math/aerodynamics/physics says that a constant pace is the most efficient way to row a given piece. (the one that will require the least amount of work)

The human body + brain system is the complicated part of the equation, but not being a racer or anything like that, I'm not sure what the "best" is for that sort of situation. When I'm trying for a good time I almost always get negative splits, but every now and then, my body doesn't cooperate, and part of the way through I realize that just maintaining my pace will be all I'm going to be able to do on that given day.

I think it comes down to how well know know your body and what you can do at a given distance. If you don't know yourself well you might start off too fast and pay the price later, but if you do, you can start at a "strong" pace, then when you have X% left, you can start pushing yourself harder and harder, and at the very end give it everything you have left. (at least that's what I typically do)

[Tsnor]

... there are two goals I would like to hit this year;

1) A marathon row (preferably in May during the challenge period)
2) Sub 7 min 2000m

Not sure if you've seen the C2 rankings. The link is at the bottom of your log page https://log.concept2.com/rankings

You can see results of people posting their best results at various distances/times including 2K and marathon. The percentile results give a good feel for what times are possible.

2022 2000m RowErg Rankings
Weight: All | Gender: M | Ages: 30-39 | Country: All | Verified Results | Adaptive: No
Percentiles ______90th_____ 75th___ 50th____ 25th
Result __________6:50.3 ___7:13.0 __ 7:43.3 __8:23.2
Pace ___________1:42.5 ___1:48.2 ___1:55.8 __2:05.8
https://log.concept2.com/rankings/2022/ ... s=verified

[Dangerscouse]

In terms of my progress so far I did my longest row so far on Sunday which was 15,000 metres. Took me 1 hr 7 mins so wasn’t quick but was just trying to keep it nice and steady. Going to keep slowly increasing the long row most weeks and try to get the first half marathon in late Feb.

For the longer distances you do need to park your ego to build a tolerance / understanding of what it feels like, and what you need to do before you start ramping up the pace.

Neg splits are mentally (probably) the best option, but as Ombrax says, physiologically, a constant pace is best, but it's more about finding what works for you on a given day. So many variables at play, that sometimes things works and other days they really don't