10K tips requested

[forza11]

I started rowing again in December and i just switched up to 10K. My goal is primarily improving my condition and weight loss. I did a couple of 10K's since last week and i'm looking for some tips as to what i should focus on improving. I notice that my recovery (as in, how tired my body is 30 minutes after the workout) is getting much better already, so i can probably get more out of it.

I'm interested to read some tips and focus areas based on the results below.

Some comments: Male, 40, 1,95mtr, 125kg. The drag factor is 117 with the current setting, i set the slider a bit higher after the workout of this morning but i havent tried it yet. In general I stay below 2:20 per 500mtr, the deviating times in the tables below are a result of quick brakes (drinking water primarily).

Time Meters Pace S/M Heart
47:56.6 10,000m 2:23.8 19 135
9:18.3 2,000m 2:19.5 19 123
9:41.8 4,000m 2:25.4 19 123
10:08.6 6,000m 2:32.1 20 141
9:31.5 8,000m 2:22.8 21 139
9:16.3 10,000m 2:19.0 21 151

46:31.0 10,000m 2:19.5 19
9:05.8 2,000m 2:16.4 20
9:05.7 4,000m 2:16.4 19
9:08.5 6,000m 2:17.1 20
9:58.7 8,000m 2:29.6 19
9:12.4 10,000m 2:18.1 21

47:28.7 10,000m 2:22.4 19 130
9:10.3 2,000m 2:17.5 20 122
9:26.8 4,000m 2:21.7 20 131
9:57.0 6,000m 2:29.2 19 134
9:47.2 8,000m 2:26.8 20 122
9:07.4 10,000m 2:16.8 21 143

[mitchel674]

What type of "tips" are you looking for?

These all look like good steady state rows. Continue to do these long pieces at your current stroke rate 3 times each week. Mix in some interval training 2 times a week and you have a good rowing program.

For these longer steady pieces, you should focus on your form at these low stroke rates. Some will also tailor these to certain heart rate zones.

[KeithT]

Agree with the previous reply that these look like good Steady State rows. If you want to improve rowing mix in some more intense intervals otherwise these serve well for fitness/cardio work. Focus on form and consistency and maybe try to do without any breaks.

[Dangerscouse]

Mitch and Keith have covered it, and I'd reiterate that ideally you want to drop the water breaks. I don't stop for water for anything less than 30k, so it's usually a mental crutch rather than a necessity.

[dabatey]

I found my need/want for water breaks went down considerably once I started running a fan on myself and ensured my heating wasn't blasting during my workout. (The effect of the fan also showing clearly in a much reduced heart rate.) So the 'mental crutch' bit may need a 'heat qualifier'.

[Autoland]

Great advice from strong rowers already.

From someone who's recently gone through what you're pursuing, and still is in some respects, I'd like to contribute some advice.

I very much agree with the suggestions to limit your breaks, mix in some hard interval sessions, and stick with slow and steady for the 10k+ work until you perfect your technique. Solid technique is so important.

My primary mistake was/is going too hard on the 10k+ work, feeling the need to achieve a PB every time. Don't do this! Keep it slow and steady for the majority of the longer sessions.

Good luck!

[jamesg]

I started rowing again in December and i just switched up to 10K. My goal is primarily improving my condition and weight loss. I did a couple of 10K's since last week and I'm looking for some tips as to what i should focus on improving

You're doing well, and at 40y have plenty of room to do even better.

A 10k in 47' at rate 20 is about 130W, and stroke worth 130/20 = 6.5 Watt minutes. So you're probably pulling hard. Ergdata can show you your average pull force (45-50kg?).

If so, it seems likely that your main limitation is stroke length, maybe due to your weight. This with the help of technique (in particular the stroke sequences and posture) will sort itself out, if you keep at it.

This is nothing more than basic engineering: Work is Force x Length; so both are needed in rowing.

[forza11]

Thanks for the replies! I will work on removing the breaks for these 10k's and add interval trainings in the week. Good to read that the current output is good!

You're doing well, and at 40y have plenty of room to do even better.

A 10k in 47' at rate 20 is about 130W, and stroke worth 130/20 = 6.5 Watt minutes. So you're probably pulling hard. Ergdata can show you your average pull force (45-50kg?).

If so, it seems likely that your main limitation is stroke length, maybe due to your weight. This with the help of technique (in particular the stroke sequences and posture) will sort itself out, if you keep at it.

This is nothing more than basic engineering: Work is Force x Length; so both are needed in rowing.

I checked it this morning during a 5K using ergdata

average force: 43KG
Peak force: 63KG
Drive length: 1,12mtr
Drag factor 126

whilst posting this I searched a little bit about the stroke length and there is definitely some room for improvement in my rowing technique after looking at a helpful video (for those interested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVhEdQ6 ... orseRowing). I will do another run tomorrow morning focussing on extending the stroke length.

[mitchel674]

Thanks for the replies! I will work on removing the breaks for these 10k's and add interval trainings in the week. Good to read that the current output is good!

You're doing well, and at 40y have plenty of room to do even better.

A 10k in 47' at rate 20 is about 130W, and stroke worth 130/20 = 6.5 Watt minutes. So you're probably pulling hard. Ergdata can show you your average pull force (45-50kg?).

If so, it seems likely that your main limitation is stroke length, maybe due to your weight. This with the help of technique (in particular the stroke sequences and posture) will sort itself out, if you keep at it.

This is nothing more than basic engineering: Work is Force x Length; so both are needed in rowing.

I checked it this morning during a 5K using ergdata

average force: 43KG
Peak force: 63KG
Drive length: 1,12mtr
Drag factor 126

whilst posting this I searched a little bit about the stroke length and there is definitely some room for improvement in my rowing technique after looking at a helpful video (for those interested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVhEdQ6 ... orseRowing). I will do another run tomorrow morning focussing on extending the stroke length.

At your height, your stroke length should be significantly longer. Likely you are not rocking effectively at your hips. A side view video would help you confirm this.

I row with ergdata displaying my stroke length. This keeps me honest! I tend to shorten when I fatigue or get sloppy. I am significantly shorter than you, and my stroke length is typically 1.3m for reference.

You do have a bit to gain here which will help your efforts!

[jamesg]

I'd say you're doing well. Keep at it. Losing a little weight can help you move faster at the catch with a longer stroke, which will certainly show up in your power level, stroke length etc. All in good time.

[Dangerscouse]

At your height, your stroke length should be significantly longer. Likely you are not rocking effectively at your hips.

Good point. You're slightly taller than me, and my stroke length is circa 1.45m. With a shorter stroke you're leaving a lot of distance unrowed.

Don't rush up and down the slide as you'll just expend more energy, but you'll be going less distance. Think of the hip hinge as 11 o clock to 1 o clock: not too far forward, as to overcompress, and lean back far enough to really maximise the distance.

As an example, a longer stroke may be circa 10-12m, but a shorter stroke may be 7-9m. That (possible) 5m difference will also use up a similar amount of energy, so assuming you're rowing at r20, that's a potential loss of 100m per minute.

The good thing is that this is an easy fix, and you'll gain significantly from it too. Keep tweaking the small elements and you'll be a more efficient rower, but you've made a good start and everyone makes a load of errors at the start.

[AncientMariner]

The others have covered the basics: focus on improving form and technique on the long slow sessions, and work in some intervals.
You are going at a nice rating, I try to keep in the 17-20 spm range for my 10K rows. Just keep your eye on power and length, which will come with time focusing on technique.

I'm 44, same height as you, but extremely lightweight, 68kg, and my drive length is typically 1.6m. Not that you should aim for that, but just to give you an idea. I may be over-compressing a little. I'm typically doing my SS 10Ks around a 2:10 pace. Also in a similar boat to you where I have been focusing on getting longer sessions, primarily 10K or 1 hour sessions. I need to mix in more intervals / hard sessions.

I also have trouble with the water breaks as well, I know I can definitely go without them, but my throat gets dry and it is very tempting to take a quick break.

I also find I always find big mental improvements when I mix in significantly longer sessions than what I'm focusing on, ie. a 90min session would be good here, which then will make the 10k feel much shorter/easier. But personally I haven't been going past an hour, so I need to push my self to the 90min mark.

[forza11]

I have done another 10K and used ergdata for the drive lengths, indeed really helpful to keep you sharp. I have noticed that there is much room for improvement in both the 11 and 1 o clock stances. I managed to get around 1,25/1,30 on average and I noticed the /500 times are more often <2:10, the strokerate is often 18 instead of 20. There is a lot left to gain in my catch but there is a lot of fat on my stomach which is in the way So if im going long/deep (>1.45) than im out of of air quickly because my knees press hard in my belly. I will try to make the requested side video later, maybe there are some other tips that can help in my rowing technique.

My goal for Sunday is an uninterrupted 10K with a drive of >1.25. Thanks again for all the tips and comments, its really helpful.

[Dangerscouse]

I have done another 10K and used ergdata for the drive lengths, indeed really helpful to keep you sharp. I have noticed that there is much room for improvement in both the 11 and 1 o clock stances. I managed to get around 1,25/1,30 on average and I noticed the /500 times are more often <2:10, the strokerate is often 18 instead of 20. There is a lot left to gain in my catch but there is a lot of fat on my stomach which is in the way So if im going long/deep (>1.45) than im out of of air quickly because my knees press hard in my belly. I will try to make the requested side video later, maybe there are some other tips that can help in my rowing technique.

My goal for Sunday is an uninterrupted 10K with a drive of >1.25. Thanks again for all the tips and comments, its really helpful.

OK, don't prioritise the stroke length, especially at the catch, and just concentrate on the finish / lean back. Over time you'll lose weight, so you can slowly increase the hip hinge at the catch.

Are you exhaling at the catch? If not, that will help with the breathing issue, only if you're rowing at circa r18-22 as you should be able to take one deep breath per stroke. Over circa r25 you'll probably take two shallower breaths per stroke, so that becomes harder to manage.

Use whatever stroke rate feels natural, and r18 is fine. It's important that you can slightly forget about the stroke rate, so you can concentrate on the rudiments of the technique that will make you more efficient and stop you from leaking power.

[AncientMariner]

Agree with Danger, don't overly focus on drive length, and at the catch you don't want to over-reach or over-compress, neither do you want to lean back too much at the finish. Drive length is a measure that is good to keep an eye on, but not the most important to maximize, as you need to stay strong through the drive to make it effective. First focus should be technique: Arms away quick at the finish, hinge upper body forward from the hips, controlled, slow roll forward, preparing upper body to engage at the catch, with an immediate acceleration at the catch without hesitation into the drive with your legs then the hip swing and finish with arms. All in a smooth motion.