Concept2 Forum

Forgive me if this question has been asked .I have done a search on this site also You tube .My question is how do you get your S/M down but keep a fast pace ? I am about 2 weeks into rowing been doing 5000 m three times a week with a couple of 1000 m rows on off days . Pace is around 2:30 and S/M 24 to 25 r 110 to 120 . I read that you can lower your S/M to17 or 18 and pace 2:00.How is this possible ? I am about 6 foot about 210 so have a small gut. Concept 2 pm 5 is my machine . I think maybe someone taller person can get S/M down and hit faster times maybe . I am 65 years old so forgive me if it is a dumb question . I always weight trained and just got into rowing so far loving it one of the best workouts I have had in long time without any joint pain . Heart rate staying in cardio 130 for most of workout which is great . I do have more in the tank but don't want to over do it .I am in it for the long haul .Any help will be greatly appreciated and if I can figure out how to post some of my logged workouts I will .
Thank You

electricstart wrote: ↑

September 29th, 2021, 5:41 pm

My question is how do you get your S/M down but keep a fast pace ?

The short answer is put more power into each stroke. That involves holding a strong core while your legs really push - you have to transfer that leg power to the handle.

It's really all about technique. Coming back up the slide, slowly, on the recovery, get into your catch position early so you are ready for that explosive drive. Make a strong drive with smooth transitions from legs to back opening to finishing with the arms.

The stroke rate is mostly determined by the recovery, which you control. The drive should be the same no matter what the stroke rate is.

Don't get your stroke rate so low that you are straining your back on the drive, 24-25 is not bad. I generally don't go below 20 unless I'm pulling very lightly in a warm up or for technique drills.

Likewise with the drag factor; keep it low for the same reason.

Get your technique down pat and the variation in stroke rate becomes easier.

Good luck, and have fun!

Thank You

Bottom line is that you have to push HARD with your legs. (and of course successfully transfer that load through your torso and arms to the handle)

Set the PM to display the force curve and work on your technique so your curve looks like the "ideal" one discussed at the link below:

Good Luck

https://www.concept2.com/indoor-rowers/ ... orce-curve

I do use the force curve and some look like that but not all . The force curve does help me a lot really shows my faults .

Thank You

Couple training exercises.

1. Keep that same split (2:30) but lower you rating to about 22-23. Then after sometime lower it again to about 20-21. Keep lowering until it becomes impossible to maintain that split.

2. Row at a ridiculous low rating, like 12-13, at a leisurely split. Maintain that rating and slowly decrease your split until you hit a wall. Continue up to about 20 rating.

DO NOT over do it, but push hard. This isn't meant to be HIIT but as an means to learn to have powerful strokes. You will surprised the workout you can get at low ratings. I have 3.5 million meters logged and most of these are in the 14-18 rating range. I have no problem creating sweat.

Select your drag factor as you see fit.

elvistcb3577 wrote: ↑

September 29th, 2021, 7:45 pm

most of these are in the 14-18 rating range. I have no problem creating sweat.

Do what works best for you. Having said that, for the newbies out there, 14 spm is generally considered to be a very low stroke rate. Many would say the same for 18 spm, but that isn't super-slow. However, if it works for you, and doesn't result in complaints from your body (for the same pace, lower stroke rates mean that you're necessarily applying higher forces less often, higher stroke rates mean lower forces more often) then by all means, do what you like. (I'm normally around 20-22, but sometimes when I look at the gym rower's PM history and I see so many folks rowing at a 3:15 pace with a stroke rate of 30+ spm I have to shake my head and wonder.)

Thanks for all the great advice .Really good stuff very happy I got into this. Great site

electricstart wrote: ↑

September 29th, 2021, 5:41 pm

Forgive me if this question has been asked .I have done a search on this site also You tube .My question is how do you get your S/M down but keep a fast pace ? I am about 2 weeks into rowing been doing 5000 m three times a week with a couple of 1000 m rows on off days . Pace is around 2:30 and S/M 24 to 25 r 110 to 120 . I read that you can lower your S/M to17 or 18 and pace 2:00.How is this possible ? I am about 6 foot about 210 so have a small gut. Concept 2 pm 5 is my machine . I think maybe someone taller person can get S/M down and hit faster times maybe . I am 65 years old so forgive me if it is a dumb question . I always weight trained and just got into rowing so far loving it one of the best workouts I have had in long time without any joint pain . Heart rate staying in cardio 130 for most of workout which is great . I do have more in the tank but don't want to over do it .I am in it for the long haul .Any help will be greatly appreciated and if I can figure out how to post some of my logged workouts I will .
Thank You

Key is this. A stroke is not a stroke. You have an active fase, the drive, here you put energy in the flywheel. This gives the pace.
And a passive fase, the recovery, here the flywheel gets time to slow down.

How long those both fases last gives spm. But that says nothing about how fast we go. Both fases could last 50/50%, but but also every other number, apart from it being one. The shorter the drive time lasts, the faster we go.

Next to this, there is also drag, or how much resistance the flywheel gives and lenght of the stroke. Simply how much chain do you pull per stroke.

Combine it and you get pace.

I don't want to be rude but 2:00 pace at 17 to 18spm for any decent length of time is pretty quick and not possible for most 65 year Olds. You need a more realistic target.

electricstart wrote: ↑

September 29th, 2021, 5:41 pm

Forgive me if this question has been asked .I have done a search on this site also You tube .My question is how do you get your S/M down but keep a fast pace ? I am about 2 weeks into rowing been doing 5000 m three times a week with a couple of 1000 m rows on off days . Pace is around 2:30 and S/M 24 to 25 r 110 to 120 . I read that you can lower your S/M to17 or 18 and pace 2:00.How is this possible ? I am about 6 foot about 210 so have a small gut. Concept 2 pm 5 is my machine . I think maybe someone taller person can get S/M down and hit faster times maybe . I am 65 years old so forgive me if it is a dumb question . I always weight trained and just got into rowing so far loving it one of the best workouts I have had in long time without any joint pain . Heart rate staying in cardio 130 for most of workout which is great . I do have more in the tank but don't want to over do it .I am in it for the long haul .Any help will be greatly appreciated and if I can figure out how to post some of my logged workouts I will .
Thank You

If your pace for a 5k is 2:30 @ 24/25 spm you will not be able to go a faster pace of 2:00 at 20 spm for the 5k without improving fitness. You may be able to maintain 1k at the faster pace lower rate but you need to give more info on current training.

By no means at 65 almost 66 do I expect to do the 2 minute pace for long periods of time at 17 S/M . I just wanted to know how it is possible . I do realize i need to get in better shape that is why I am rowing instead of weight training .Believe me you can get in great shape just weight training but my joints are feeling their age . I do still weight train just not my normal one hour plus sessions 4 days a week . As you age the metabolism slows down you have to push harder and burn more calories then you bring in to lose weight and fitness gets better. I have done it all my life . My best weight is 190 and right now 210 so not to bad. I have seen 250 which is very bad . Age also reduces your ambition to work out hard every other day you make excuses mentally not to do it . You have to fight that and its tough. I am happy with my current pace and S/M but I know I can do better because I just started two weeks ago . I do feel better every time i get on the machine . I did start out out around 3 minute pace and already reduced to 230 for 5000 m and I know my form still is way off . Thanks to the help from this forum and concept 2 it is getting better. Remember I never rowed a day in my life just weight trained, running some biking and elliptical .I should say I did row but with barbell ,dumbells ,kettlebells, or cable machine. I do know my limitations after all these years one thing I learned you can over do it . Injury knocks you out of the game for a while especially at my age or any age for that matter.

Thank You

I would caution comparing your results to others on this board. There are many elite athletes here that pull times that us mere mortals only dream about. If you are new to rowing and just using it as a means to fitness, it doesn't really matter a. what your split-time is, b. how many strokes/min you take, c. or even what drag factor you use. As long as -

1. You have good form (there are many drills you can do to achieve this, generally speaking higher s/m result in a breakdown of form)
2. You get your HR up and are generating sweat (get a hr monitor)
3. Get a decent amount of weekly work (choose a weekly time or meter goal. i would suggest at the minimum 1.5 hrs or 20,000 meters)
4. Do not overwork yourself (introduce fatigue or injury, you should feel like you could row everyday)
5. Enjoy the time on the erg and the results of your effort.

Now it is true if you want to delve into competitions, and/or achieving PB times on specific rows, there are specific drag factors and s/m that will facilitate that. And these are general in concept but will be rower specific (you can only discover them yourself). But I would not even be concerned with that until you have logged many hours and meters.

Thank You

Definitely don't compare your results, and learn to primarily love the process and have the results as secondary.

You've probably done something similar in your weight training as you will have beginner gains, which will drop off, and then you need the love of the process / self-discipline to keep you on track when the ego isn't getting fed anymore.

Good luck with it all, and hopefully in due course you will be getting close to where you want to be.