Concept2 Forum

Hi everyone

I am reasonably experienced rower in terms of technique, including a few seasons of bumps races. However my fitness is less than what it could be, and I am lazy and have low self discipline. What I mean is if a coach or team member is standing behind me I can finish a 2k at 8 (and some years ago managed to do 7.30), but when I do a 5k at 2.05 I blow up around 3.5k-4k, and stop.

I have done a few 20' at 2.10 in a paired erg, but on my own forget it. What I of lately manage to do are 5 1k's, starting at 1.53 and ending at 2.07 with about 5 min breaks in between.

Basically I am looking for a steady efficient workout that keeps my miserable fitness alive or even makes minor improvements over time. But realistically given my shitty self discipline / pain&tiredness resilience I am looking for a recommendation that I can just do over and over and is a decent workout. And that renders me a decent rower once rowing season starts in the summer again (unlike British Uni rowing German rowing clubs are not so much into rowing Nov - Feb). But I don't want a varied program, but basically a single item such as a 5k, or a 5 *1k+4'R, or a 20' @ 20 or a 30' at low pace, that I should be able to hop on the rower 3 or 4 times a week and just get it over and done with (plus technical warm up ensuring consistency in separation technique).

I am 178cm, 87kg (yes, a bit chubby not to say fat), do a deadlift of 120kg, so definitely not athlete, but in crossfit terms somewhere between beginner and intermediate.

Thanks for the recommendations in advance

It may not be exactly what you're looking for, but here's a program with 3 sessions (plus 2 optional) a week.

https://thepeteplan.wordpress.com/beginner-training/

For accountability, you can join me and post workouts in this thread.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=200804&start=30

If you want to do the same row over and over again and want to improve fitness I would say to do a bit longer row if you have time. Like perhaps a 10K and then vary the effort - one day could be an easy pace another could be moderate and another faster. This would make it easy to track progress too. You say you don't have the self-discipline but to do the same sort of workout over and over again takes some discipline. I would really recommend some change.

KeithT wrote: ↑

September 29th, 2021, 2:23 pm

If you want to do the same row over and over again and want to improve fitness I would say to do a bit longer row if you have time. Like perhaps a 10K and then vary the effort - one day could be an easy pace another could be moderate and another faster. This would make it easy to track progress too. You say you don't have the self-discipline but to do the same sort of workout over and over again takes some discipline. I would really recommend some change.

It's funny, but this is what I often do. 10k is my expected workout distance. I then often will vary how I get there. Steady state pieces are done at 2k+20. Some days I will do 1k x 10 with 10 pushups during the 1 minute rests. 2 x 5k with 3 minute rest is my favorite. All get me to my 10k but with different workouts to keep it interesting. I typically row 4-5 days per week.

mitchel674 wrote: ↑

September 29th, 2021, 3:36 pm

KeithT wrote: ↑

September 29th, 2021, 2:23 pm

If you want to do the same row over and over again and want to improve fitness I would say to do a bit longer row if you have time. Like perhaps a 10K and then vary the effort - one day could be an easy pace another could be moderate and another faster. This would make it easy to track progress too. You say you don't have the self-discipline but to do the same sort of workout over and over again takes some discipline. I would really recommend some change.

It's funny, but this is what I often do. 10k is my expected workout distance. I then often will vary how I get there. Steady state pieces are done at 2k+20. Some days I will do 1k x 10 with 10 pushups during the 1 minute rests. 2 x 5k with 3 minute rest is my favorite. All get me to my 10k but with different workouts to keep it interesting. I typically row 4-5 days per week.

You mentioned CF - are you doing that a few times a week as well?

KeithT wrote: ↑

September 29th, 2021, 4:31 pm

mitchel674 wrote: ↑

September 29th, 2021, 3:36 pm

KeithT wrote: ↑

September 29th, 2021, 2:23 pm

If you want to do the same row over and over again and want to improve fitness I would say to do a bit longer row if you have time. Like perhaps a 10K and then vary the effort - one day could be an easy pace another could be moderate and another faster. This would make it easy to track progress too. You say you don't have the self-discipline but to do the same sort of workout over and over again takes some discipline. I would really recommend some change.

It's funny, but this is what I often do. 10k is my expected workout distance. I then often will vary how I get there. Steady state pieces are done at 2k+20. Some days I will do 1k x 10 with 10 pushups during the 1 minute rests. 2 x 5k with 3 minute rest is my favorite. All get me to my 10k but with different workouts to keep it interesting. I typically row 4-5 days per week.

You mentioned CF - are you doing that a few times a week as well?

No, I'm not the OP. I do not do CF.

I was doing weight training 2 days/week before covid, but I have not been back to my gym in over a year. I now do yoga and pull ups on my off days.

Sound like you need to

1) build your aerobic base. LONG pieces done slowly. Not intervals.

2) drive FUN back into your workouts so that you look forward to them.

If you are forcing yourself to row and finding excuses not to row then something is wrong. Could be you are picking ugly workouts that don't end well like "fly and die" intervals, or "i used to do 2:00 so if I try hard enough I can do it right now". Doesn't work long term.

".. but when I do a 5k at 2.05 I blow up around 3.5k-4k, and stop..." Do that a few times and your body will say "no way I'm getting near that rowing machine, it's evil." Don't do that. If you row a 5k start that row with a split 10 seconds SLOWER than you expect to row the 5K. You can gradually improve it, or keep it slow if you are not feeling it that day. Either way you can end strong.

Suggest you find something you like to do that you can do while rowing. Examples: listen to an audio book, watch a movie, watch a football game, listen to music, talk on the phone. Make the fun thing the focus,
row at a pace that doesn't interfere with the fun thing and where it's not at all hard to do 45 mins to an hour while you are doing whatever it is you like. Maybe a 2:30 pace. Maybe 2:45. Maybe start at 2:45 and 30 minutes into your workout start to bring it down to a 2:30.

Reward yourself with something you like to do while rowing, then reward yourself when you finish rowing.

Concept2 has a great set of rewards programs. Join a team and add your meters rowed to your team's meters. Maybe get a few rowing session a week under done for 6 weeks then join this one in late Nov: https://log.concept2.com/challenges/holiday You just row and C2 keeps track of the meters. Pace doesn't matter. You are helping your team every meter rowed. Then you can target your first 1 million meters and collect a free t-shirt.

If you like gadgets get a heartrate belt and start tracking your resting heart rate, heart rate while rowing at a set pace, your "heart rate variance". All of these metrics will improve slowly over time.

If you look at a few of Carl's posts he likes rowing with people so uses ROWPRO to get into races. Others use rowing scenery. Finding something fun should be your #1 goal. Once it's fun again you can look at other things like improved 2K times, etc.

to add to what Tsnor wrote...there's no way I could do my steady distance rows without additional stimulus. I either listen to podcasts or watch sport on the TV

however, I can't do harder rows with podcasts as when my heart rate goes up, I can't concentrate on what's being said. so for intervals and harder distance pieces I need music to get me going.

aussie nick wrote: ↑

September 29th, 2021, 10:23 pm

to add to what Tsnor wrote...there's no way I could do my steady distance rows without additional stimulus. I either listen to podcasts or watch sport on the TV

however, I can't do harder rows with podcasts as when my heart rate goes up, I can't concentrate on what's being said. so for intervals and harder distance pieces I need music to get me going.

neat, that EXACTLY what I do. Books (i like the kindle computer voice, so have many choices) or podcasts for slow work and music for anything hard. I have two music playlists, one for very hard work and one less aggressive efforts.

Tsnor wrote: ↑

September 30th, 2021, 8:34 pm

aussie nick wrote: ↑

September 29th, 2021, 10:23 pm

to add to what Tsnor wrote...there's no way I could do my steady distance rows without additional stimulus. I either listen to podcasts or watch sport on the TV

however, I can't do harder rows with podcasts as when my heart rate goes up, I can't concentrate on what's being said. so for intervals and harder distance pieces I need music to get me going.

neat, that EXACTLY what I do. Books (i like the kindle computer voice, so have many choices) or podcasts for slow work and music for anything hard. I have two music playlists, one for very hard work and one less aggressive efforts.

ha. I also have one particular track for my 1k time trials, a different one for my 2k and then a 4 track playlist for my 5k tt

looking for a steady efficient workout that keeps my miserable fitness alive or even makes minor improvements over time.

20 to 30 minutes, rate 20. Every stroke a big one, using technique, height and strength. By all means go faster, if you can, but not via rating. As you well know, in rowing it's the boat that goes fast, not us. Use watts as control, not pace; it's three times better resolution, thanks to the cube law. Let yourself warm up in the first 5-7 minutes, and stop early rather than fade, it's all experience. The best work is done in the second half.

The Watt/Rating ratio is the Work in each stroke, which is what we train.

The occasional 500m after ten minutes warmup can serve as overall control.

Thanks for all the feedback, some has really given me food for thought.

To be honest, I loathe exercise. Specifically I unfortunately loathe cycling and running. If there was a pill I could take with the same effects, I would buy it in an instant. The only exception was rowing on the water in an eight. I love that. I do crossfit to corner myself, basically letting peer pressure take over, in the sense of not stopping until the class / wod is over. I didn't do sport for 15 years 2003 - 2018, when I met a friend again who had gotten quite chubby and I met another friend who had severe back problems, and basically decided for myself that being borderline obese and having back problems was worse than keeping up some fitness regime. (The reason I didn't bloat myself is that I am reasonably carefully monitoring industrial sugar intake, I have a sweet tooth, but that stuff is just evil and body destroying). I don't know what it is about rowing, but the feeling when the boat is moving in an all eight, the clunk clunk clunk does actually motivate me, and that is the sweet spot. I don't know what it is about it, but given my history I am genuinely thrilled to have found something at all that is meaningful exercise and at least keeps me going somewhat. So the motivational factor there is train in the winter so that when summer comes I can find myself a boat club and an eight, and can row for my weight share and not be a drag (as said, my technique is decent, I watch out for straight back, decent separation etc.).

I am not in it for calorie output or strength generation or a specific target like a I want to do the 5k in this time, the idea is simply something to tick off the list as in 'having used the muscles/body'.

So to rephrase maybe the question, if you want to get a reasonable amount of exercise done (whatever reasonable is) what combination is better. Going slightly slower, doing intervals, aiming for sustaining 30 rather than 20 min. If I improve, that is great, but the main point is setting up a continuous habit that I can keep week in week out.

I found this video for a 8 min on 2 min off times 3 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wuBNnhKbb0 which might be onto something. But it is mostly on the time.

I have done the 30 min r20 going down 2 every 2 min, 3 rounds, so 2:22, 2:20 ... - I just find it really difficult to keep the pace slow and low and stay above 2:15 in order to allow for longer endurance... but possibly that is my weak spot and I need to discipline myself on that front.

Will investigate the Watt / Rating pointer on reviewing my rowing.

basilfawlty1981 wrote: ↑

October 3rd, 2021, 9:18 am

So to rephrase maybe the question, if you want to get a reasonable amount of exercise done (whatever reasonable is) what combination is better. Going slightly slower, doing intervals, aiming for sustaining 30 rather than 20 min. If I improve, that is great, but the main point is setting up a continuous habit that I can keep week in week out.

If you do any of the suggested sessions correctly, and with enough repetition, you'll improve.

Keeping a continuous habit is very specific, as my appetite could be your indigestion. All I can suggest is do whatever you fancy doing, and don't slavishly stick to anything that doesn't feel enjoyable, or at the very least doesn't evoke feelings of loathing.

basilfawlty1981 wrote: ↑

October 3rd, 2021, 9:18 am

To be honest, I loathe exercise. Specifically I unfortunately loathe cycling and running. If there was a pill I could take with the same effects, I would buy it in an instant. The only exception was rowing on the water in an eight. I love that.

OTW rowing is special. An 8 is a team thing.

Suggest you focus your plan on finding what part of using the ERG is most fun for you and then do that. None of these plans work unless you follow them, and the "instant gratification" type results really aren't there after the first months gains. Maybe team things work for you, if so there are ways to remotely erg as a team. Maybe tracking metrics is fun. There is a company that converts your km erg'ed into travel along things like the appalachian trail complete with post cards and maps. Do whatever floats your boat knowing that if it isn't fun you'll likely stop. Look into the "what did you do today" workout thread -- that tread helps people see what others are doing so they can copy and it also provides a positive feedback loop to help you keep rowing.

Thanks everyone though for the comments and responses.