Should I stick to BPP or jump ahead a little?

General discussion on Training. How to get better on your erg, how to use your erg to get better at another sport, or anything else about improving your abilities.
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hjs
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Re: Should I stick to BPP or jump ahead a little?

Post by hjs » May 7th, 2021, 3:49 am

Blindside wrote:
May 6th, 2021, 5:30 pm
Thanks for all the advice i feel as if I'm on the right track now.

My first 5000 I didn't push hard enough

In my first interval session, I pushed too hard and felt the pain for little gain :)

Really enjoyed my 5000M today, felt as if I had pushed it but I could have gone on at the end there was no distress but I worked. Tried to concentrate more on the leg drive and a later less influential pull. My initial 5000M was 27:57 on a stroke rate of 23 and today it was 23.29 on a stroke rate of 22, felt comfortable but certainly felt I had trained. I hope this indicates a slightly better form and gauging of effort. I will stop imposing on you all now and get my head down train more, follow the plan and type less :)
A good guide for this is. If needed could you have done it again after 5 min? If you could not you pushed to hard. Being 4 min faster really shows the first try was extremely cautious.
How you form is can not be said based on the numbers alone.

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Re: Should I stick to BPP or jump ahead a little?

Post by Blindside » May 7th, 2021, 4:37 am

hjs wrote:
May 7th, 2021, 3:49 am
Blindside wrote:
May 6th, 2021, 5:30 pm
Thanks for all the advice i feel as if I'm on the right track now.

My first 5000 I didn't push hard enough

In my first interval session, I pushed too hard and felt the pain for little gain :)

Really enjoyed my 5000M today, felt as if I had pushed it but I could have gone on at the end there was no distress but I worked. Tried to concentrate more on the leg drive and a later less influential pull. My initial 5000M was 27:57 on a stroke rate of 23 and today it was 23.29 on a stroke rate of 22, felt comfortable but certainly felt I had trained. I hope this indicates a slightly better form and gauging of effort. I will stop imposing on you all now and get my head down train more, follow the plan and type less :)
A good guide for this is. If needed could you have done it again after 5 min? If you could not you pushed to hard. Being 4 min faster really shows the first try was extremely cautious.
How you form is can not be said based on the numbers alone.

Thanks, so the "Power" I'm creating is the relationship between the number of strokes and distance travelled in relation to time? Although increased power is certainly desirable the way I have generated that power may not be an indication of improved technique, merely effort?

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hjs
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Re: Should I stick to BPP or jump ahead a little?

Post by hjs » May 7th, 2021, 5:03 am

Blindside wrote:
May 7th, 2021, 4:37 am
hjs wrote:
May 7th, 2021, 3:49 am
Blindside wrote:
May 6th, 2021, 5:30 pm
Thanks for all the advice i feel as if I'm on the right track now.

My first 5000 I didn't push hard enough

In my first interval session, I pushed too hard and felt the pain for little gain :)

Really enjoyed my 5000M today, felt as if I had pushed it but I could have gone on at the end there was no distress but I worked. Tried to concentrate more on the leg drive and a later less influential pull. My initial 5000M was 27:57 on a stroke rate of 23 and today it was 23.29 on a stroke rate of 22, felt comfortable but certainly felt I had trained. I hope this indicates a slightly better form and gauging of effort. I will stop imposing on you all now and get my head down train more, follow the plan and type less :)
A good guide for this is. If needed could you have done it again after 5 min? If you could not you pushed to hard. Being 4 min faster really shows the first try was extremely cautious.
How you form is can not be said based on the numbers alone.

Thanks, so the "Power" I'm creating is the relationship between the number of strokes and distance travelled in relation to time? Although increased power is certainly desirable the way I have generated that power may not be an indication of improved technique, merely effort?
Yes, the more power, the more meters per stroke (given a certain strokerate)
I would not be negative about it. You are simply learning the machine and the movement. No doubt both effort and technique did the job.
And about technique. This is not about how it looks etc, but the only thing that matters is, using the most efficient way of using your body to get energy in the flywheel. With one restriction, do not get hurt.

You could expect to get a good bit faster the next few weeks. That is simply the way it goes.

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Re: Should I stick to BPP or jump ahead a little?

Post by Tony Cook » May 7th, 2021, 5:06 am

OregonERG wrote:
May 6th, 2021, 11:33 pm
Blindside wrote:
May 6th, 2021, 5:30 pm
My first 5000 I didn't push hard enough
Push? I am pretty sure that you are supposed to pull. Maybe I have been doing this all wrong.

Seriously though, good job on the huge 4:30 min. improvement! That must feel great!
It’s definitely ’push’. Push hard with the legs 60%+ of the effort - with a little ‘pull’ with the arms at the end. 😉
Born 1963 6' 5" 100Kg
PBs only from 2020 - 100m 15.7s - 1min 355m - 500m 1:28.4 - 1k 3:10.6 - 2k 6:31.6 - 5k 17:34.9 - 6k 20:57.5 - 30min @ 20SPM 8,336m - 10k 36:28.0 - 1 hour 16,094m - HM 1:18:51.7

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Re: Should I stick to BPP or jump ahead a little?

Post by mitchel674 » May 7th, 2021, 7:17 am

Blindside wrote:
May 6th, 2021, 5:30 pm
Thanks for all the advice i feel as if I'm on the right track now.

My first 5000 I didn't push hard enough

In my first interval session, I pushed too hard and felt the pain for little gain :)

Really enjoyed my 5000M today, felt as if I had pushed it but I could have gone on at the end there was no distress but I worked. Tried to concentrate more on the leg drive and a later less influential pull. My initial 5000M was 27:57 on a stroke rate of 23 and today it was 23.29 on a stroke rate of 22, felt comfortable but certainly felt I had trained. I hope this indicates a slightly better form and gauging of effort. I will stop imposing on you all now and get my head down train more, follow the plan and type less :)
That's excellent. Significantly more power in those strokes now. Your last 5000m effort is what those steady BPP should look and feel like.

Kudos for listening.
55yo male, 6ft, 154lbs

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Re: Should I stick to BPP or jump ahead a little?

Post by Dangerscouse » May 7th, 2021, 8:55 am

Blindside wrote:
May 6th, 2021, 5:30 pm
Thanks for all the advice i feel as if I'm on the right track now.

My first 5000 I didn't push hard enough

In my first interval session, I pushed too hard and felt the pain for little gain :)

Really enjoyed my 5000M today, felt as if I had pushed it but I could have gone on at the end there was no distress but I worked. Tried to concentrate more on the leg drive and a later less influential pull. My initial 5000M was 27:57 on a stroke rate of 23 and today it was 23.29 on a stroke rate of 22, felt comfortable but certainly felt I had trained. I hope this indicates a slightly better form and gauging of effort. I will stop imposing on you all now and get my head down train more, follow the plan and type less :)
Well done. You've listened, and significantly improved. Enjoyment is the primary target for these sessions, as when the newbie gains fade away (and they defo will) you will still be inclined to carry on and keep chipping away.
47 HWT; 6' 4"; 1k= 3:09; 2k= 6:36; 5k= 17:24; 6k= 20:47; 10k= 35:46 30mins= 8,428m 60mins= 16,618m HM= 1:16.47; FM= 2:40:41; 50k= 3:16:09; 100k= 7:52:44; 12hrs = 153km

"You reap what you row"

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OregonERG
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Re: Should I stick to BPP or jump ahead a little?

Post by OregonERG » May 7th, 2021, 12:44 pm

Tony Cook wrote:
May 7th, 2021, 5:06 am
OregonERG wrote:
May 6th, 2021, 11:33 pm
Blindside wrote:
May 6th, 2021, 5:30 pm
My first 5000 I didn't push hard enough
Push? I am pretty sure that you are supposed to pull. Maybe I have been doing this all wrong.

Seriously though, good job on the huge 4:30 min. improvement! That must feel great!
It’s definitely ’push’. Push hard with the legs 60%+ of the effort - with a little ‘pull’ with the arms at the end. 😉
D'oh! I forgot the legs! Good point. I guess that explains why my legs are like jelly after my hard sessions...
48 years, 6'0 & 170 lbs. | 2km - 6:59.2 / 5km - 18:13.7 / 30 min - 8085m / 10km - 37:12.5 / Hour Best - 15,823m

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Re: Should I stick to BPP or jump ahead a little?

Post by Blindside » May 15th, 2021, 6:44 pm

Completed week 2 of the BPP plan.

The difference between my S/M on my interval days and my set length rows have merged significantly I rowed the 4X750M intervals at 24 S/M and the 5500 at 22 S/M. The 500M pace on the 750 was 2:03 and the 5500 was 2:14. The main difference between the two was the Watts 188 and 144 respectively.

Is that the way to go? Or should I be attempting a higher stroke rate on the intervals days even if my Watts drop?

I've got my damper on 6 for no reason other than it seemed an unremarkable setting, I'd consider myself more physical than supple (kind of thing) so not sure if I should turn it up on those stroke rates?

I may try and add a video of my form to see if I'm heading in the right direction or engraining bad habits.

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Re: Should I stick to BPP or jump ahead a little?

Post by max_ratcliffe » May 16th, 2021, 1:00 am

Blindside wrote:
May 15th, 2021, 6:44 pm
Completed week 2 of the BPP plan.

The difference between my S/M on my interval days and my set length rows have merged significantly I rowed the 4X750M intervals at 24 S/M and the 5500 at 22 S/M. The 500M pace on the 750 was 2:03 and the 5500 was 2:14. The main difference between the two was the Watts 188 and 144 respectively.

Is that the way to go? Or should I be attempting a higher stroke rate on the intervals days even if my Watts drop?

I've got my damper on 6 for no reason other than it seemed an unremarkable setting, I'd consider myself more physical than supple (kind of thing) so not sure if I should turn it up on those stroke rates?

I may try and add a video of my form to see if I'm heading in the right direction or engraining bad habits.
As your fitness improves you may want to have a greater difference between your steady state and your interval pieces. Research seems to suggest that most people benefit from a polarised approach with fast intervals and steady state slow enough that it doesn't compromise your recovery for fast work and you can amass a lot of volume.

That said, I really wouldn't worry too much during the bpp. Let your intervals increase in pace according to Pete's suggestion and increase your volume on the steady pieces in line with the program.

Re damper. The lever position is more or less meaningless for comparison between different machines because it depends on how clean the machine is. Drag factor is available from the pm and is much more useful. Most people use df about 115-130 although there are outliers of course. Once set to a value that works for you, leave the lever where it is for the duration of the bpp.

For sprints, people often crank up the drag a bit because at an spm of 45-60 (or even higher for some mentalists) the fan wheel doesn't have time to slow down much and it's difficult to put much work into the machine. But don't worry about sprints for a while.

Do put up a video. None of us ever gets the style right at first.
50 HWT
PBs:
Rower 1'=329m; 500m=1:34.0; 1k=3:25:1; 2k=7:16.5; 5k=19:44; 6k=23:24; 30'=7582m; 10k=40.28; 60'=14621m; HM=1:27:46
SkiErg 1'=298m; 500m=1:42.4; 1k=3:36.0; 2k=7:43.8; 5k=20:35; 6k=25:29; 30'=7239m; 10k=42:35; 60'=13358m; HM=NGTFH

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hjs
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Re: Should I stick to BPP or jump ahead a little?

Post by hjs » May 16th, 2021, 4:10 am

Blindside wrote:
May 15th, 2021, 6:44 pm
Completed week 2 of the BPP plan.

The difference between my S/M on my interval days and my set length rows have merged significantly I rowed the 4X750M intervals at 24 S/M and the 5500 at 22 S/M. The 500M pace on the 750 was 2:03 and the 5500 was 2:14. The main difference between the two was the Watts 188 and 144 respectively.

Is that the way to go? Or should I be attempting a higher stroke rate on the intervals days even if my Watts drop?

I've got my damper on 6 for no reason other than it seemed an unremarkable setting, I'd consider myself more physical than supple (kind of thing) so not sure if I should turn it up on those stroke rates?

I may try and add a video of my form to see if I'm heading in the right direction or engraining bad habits.
Pace = watts. If you mention one the other is given. The faster pace the higher watts.

The difference is strokerate is bit small, you increese the rate with only 2 strokes, lees than 10%, and this gives you 11 seconds extra pace. Or 44watt, this is more than 25%. This means you used a different stroke, with more power during the intervals.
Over time you should strive to up the rating over the interval work and lower it a bit (optional) over the continues sessions.

Re setting, search for drag, find out what you get on your machine. And search for maintance of the fan, over time the fan does collect dust and needs cleaning. On a new machine 6 is high and will give you a slow drive. To high a drag.

Nothing major went wrong, just some pointers.

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Re: Should I stick to BPP or jump ahead a little?

Post by Blindside » May 16th, 2021, 7:27 am

Thanks both, that increases my understanding of the process. there are a lot of terms that interrelate depending on factors :shock: I have been reading other threads but the direct interventions on my thought processes are invaluable.

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Re: Should I stick to BPP or jump ahead a little?

Post by Blindside » May 22nd, 2021, 4:57 pm

Completed week three of BPP (with optional extra interval to do). In my first 6000M row, I did at 2:13.9 pace, I felt I had possibly done too quick for my present fitness level as I dug a little too deep. For my second 6000M, I decided to pace it at 2:15 to not make it a constant battle of wills between me and the rower. I just couldn't do it without "going to war" my pace was 2:16.7. This really pissed me off! After completion, I noticed that the damper lever had been pushed down to Zero (probably by my grandkids). The Drag factor was in the 80's, where my previous times had been on a drag factor in the 130s on 5. Would this account for the fall-off on performance?

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Re: Should I stick to BPP or jump ahead a little?

Post by max_ratcliffe » May 22nd, 2021, 6:08 pm

Blindside wrote:
May 22nd, 2021, 4:57 pm
<>
After completion, I noticed that the damper lever had been pushed down to Zero (probably by my grandkids). The Drag factor was in the 80's, where my previous times had been on a drag factor in the 130s on 5. Would this account for the fall-off on performance?
Yep. 80ish is probably low enough that it would slow you down. It would demand a very fast drive to connect with the machine at all. In terms of fatigue, think of doing jumping squats rather than regular ones.
50 HWT
PBs:
Rower 1'=329m; 500m=1:34.0; 1k=3:25:1; 2k=7:16.5; 5k=19:44; 6k=23:24; 30'=7582m; 10k=40.28; 60'=14621m; HM=1:27:46
SkiErg 1'=298m; 500m=1:42.4; 1k=3:36.0; 2k=7:43.8; 5k=20:35; 6k=25:29; 30'=7239m; 10k=42:35; 60'=13358m; HM=NGTFH

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Re: Should I stick to BPP or jump ahead a little?

Post by mitchel674 » May 23rd, 2021, 8:38 am

Blindside wrote:
May 22nd, 2021, 4:57 pm
After completion, I noticed that the damper lever had been pushed down to Zero (probably by my grandkids). The Drag factor was in the 80's, where my previous times had been on a drag factor in the 130s on 5. Would this account for the fall-off on performance?
That's pretty funny.

Actually, it's not a bad idea to try some work at your lowest drag factor. Take a look at this great video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hiQ0Mqlk_Lo&t=16s
55yo male, 6ft, 154lbs

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Rowan McSheen
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Re: Should I stick to BPP or jump ahead a little?

Post by Rowan McSheen » May 26th, 2021, 8:35 am

So how's it going, Blindside? I'm working my way through the BPP and I can confirm that by the time you get beyond week 10 you're on a pretty full workload, with talk of getting those 10,000 metre sessions done a bit quicker. So easy tiger, you'll get to the meat of it soon enough :-)
Stu 5' 9" 175 lb (give or take a few) born 1960

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