How strict is your form?

General discussion on Training. How to get better on your erg, how to use your erg to get better at another sport, or anything else about improving your abilities.
Dutch
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How strict is your form?

Post by Dutch » May 3rd, 2021, 6:13 am

I am curious about how strict alot of you guys are are about keeping your form strict when just getting the miles in.
There are a few of you here who seem to row 5 days a week maybe at 10k or over, most of the time anyway.
Do you shorten your stroke a fraction so as to relax a bit, are you at all concious of your form in anyway. Do you have a difference in form when going for a 10k upwards timed piece to just a ss row? Or does it all come down to the watts or average pace you decide to pull and that takes care of itself?
Age 51, 186cm 84kg

Dangerscouse
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Re: How strict is your form?

Post by Dangerscouse » May 3rd, 2021, 7:25 am

As I usually row either with eyes closed and/or zoned out, I put a bit of focus on exteroception, and to a less degree, interoception. I'm thinking about grip, the general feel of the stroke, and how I'm sitting on the seat: it's all too easy to start slouching.

There is also some focus on breathing and perceived effort but not as much. Over time it becomes a very natural motion as I can, more or less, gauge what SPM or pace I am going at, so there is less requirement for the focus.

I don't ever shorten my stroke, I'll just ease off the effort or change the SPM according to the session. If it's a steady session I usually let the pace choose itself, as I get a good feel for what feels right, but it's also usually within quite a small range of +/- two seconds.

In terms of form for a 10k+ TT, my form isn't really considered, as there's too much going on, and I rely on the benefits accrued during the steady sessions.
47 HWT; 6' 4"; 1k= 3:09; 2k= 6:36; 5k= 17:24; 6k= 20:47; 10k= 35:46 30mins= 8,428m 60mins= 16,618m HM= 1:16.47; FM= 2:40:41; 50k= 3:16:09; 100k= 7:52:44; 12hrs = 153km

"You reap what you row"

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hjs
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Re: How strict is your form?

Post by hjs » May 3rd, 2021, 9:20 am

Apart from cool downs, which are often very easy I always use a “good” form, nomatter what I do, even when I walk the dog I use solid steps.

KeithT
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Re: How strict is your form?

Post by KeithT » May 3rd, 2021, 10:13 am

I try to use good form but don't obsess over it - often times I am trying to zone out and "just row" assuming form is decent. I do have a mirror where I can glance over and see how I look. I do notice things here and there but some are part of my typical stroke.
53 yo, 6'3" 200#
PBs (all since turning 50):
1 min - 376m, 500m - 1:21.3, 1K - 2:57.2, 4 min - 1265m, 2K - 6:29.4, 5K - 17:23, 30 min - 8366m, 10K - 35:54, 60 min - 16110, HM - 1:19:19, FM - 2:45:41

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ampire
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Re: How strict is your form?

Post by ampire » May 3rd, 2021, 12:01 pm

I try to use good form, I think there are a lot of benefits to good form and it isn't worth taking shortcuts.

During rest intervals I often row slowly with my legs only just to keep my body moving but without expending much energy.
M35|5'8"/173CM|148lb/67KG|LWT|MHR 192|RHR 42|2020: 5K 18:52.9 (@1:53.2/500)|C2-D+Slides+EndureRow Seat+NSI Minicell Foam

mict450
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Re: How strict is your form?

Post by mict450 » May 3rd, 2021, 3:03 pm

I'm always working on maintaining the correct, proper form. Always! You could say I'm obsessive about it.
Eric, YOB:1954
Shasta County, CA, small town USA

iangallagher
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Re: How strict is your form?

Post by iangallagher » May 3rd, 2021, 6:42 pm

I feel i row better when i dont consider form. When i first started rowing last year i was concentrating on form but then realised im never going to row in a boat so who cares. Now all im bothered about is trying to get the most watts out of the machine. Quite often it looks pretty ugly :lol:
182cm; 89kg; 1km = 2.57.5; 2km = 6.19; 4mins = 1296; 5km = 16.49; 6km = 20.24; 30mins = 8605; 10km= 35.31; 60 minutes = 16205 HM = 1.23.25
Erging since May 2020

jamesg
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Re: How strict is your form?

Post by jamesg » May 5th, 2021, 4:16 pm

keeping your form strict when just getting the miles in.


I've acceptable ranges of net length (104 +/- 3cm) and average force (34-38 kg), as shown by ergdata.

1.01 x 34g/60 = 5.6 W-min Work (warm-up)
1.07 x 38g/60 = 6.6 W-min Work.

Ratings 19 to 22 cover most days (UT2 - AT), 105 to 140W. My 2k watts nowadays would be about 155 at 23.

Hill walking with sticks can be stiffer than rowing, according to chest belt/Polar, but it's not all up. With a total of about 100m climb, a 4-5 km tour takes me an hour.

Too slack and it's not rowing or walking. "Just getting the miles in" is not an option, I'm slack enough as is. Slow walking can be painful due to crushed discs, so I get the endorphines flowing asap but no more.
08-1940, 183cm, 84kg. Last seen MHR 158 in 2k = 220 - 77% of age.
2021-2: stroke 6 W-min. ½k 1:55.5; 1k 4:09.2; 2k 8:42.2; 5k 23:15; 30' 6247; 10k 49:36.

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OregonERG
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Re: How strict is your form?

Post by OregonERG » May 5th, 2021, 10:34 pm

iangallagher wrote:
May 3rd, 2021, 6:42 pm
I feel i row better when i dont consider form. When i first started rowing last year i was concentrating on form but then realised im never going to row in a boat so who cares. Now all im bothered about is trying to get the most watts out of the machine. Quite often it looks pretty ugly :lol:
I second this. I think my best form comes when I am hitting a hard pace. When I am just "going easy" then my form breaks down for sure (since I can get away with it).
48 years, 6'0 & 170 lbs. | 2km - 6:59.2 / 5km - 18:13.7 / 30 min - 8085m / 10km - 37:12.5 / Hour Best - 15,823m

jamesg
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Re: How strict is your form?

Post by jamesg » May 6th, 2021, 4:37 am

The ideal is to use the same form at all ratings; where the form represents a big stroke: full length, sustainable force and the right sequences.

This lets us train at all ratings, so allows plenty of choice as to what we do, at any rating and from one minute intervals to 30 minutes L4 to an hour+ at UT2. Without short-changing ourselves and little or no risk of injury.
08-1940, 183cm, 84kg. Last seen MHR 158 in 2k = 220 - 77% of age.
2021-2: stroke 6 W-min. ½k 1:55.5; 1k 4:09.2; 2k 8:42.2; 5k 23:15; 30' 6247; 10k 49:36.

Tobias Stoehr
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Re: How strict is your form?

Post by Tobias Stoehr » May 6th, 2021, 3:59 pm

I try to row as fast as possible at all times...sometimes while trying to stay at low heart rate. There’s never room for inefficient movement though as I want to lay down power and not just move my body up and down the rail not applying power correctly.

I consciously didn’t write „form“ though as I am not looking for pure visual cues or „textbook“ form but to use the right muscles at the right time and efficiently and effectively transfer power to the flywheel.

Cyclist2
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Re: How strict is your form?

Post by Cyclist2 » May 6th, 2021, 6:00 pm

After almost 40 years of rowing and erging, I still think about form. But only in the same way I think about trying to do anything with the most efficiency. I KNOW what the correct form is supposed to look like, and my muscle memory is solid, but I still tend to slouch when tired, or do other energy-sapping inefficiencies. It's then that I say "OK, sit up straight, don't shoot the slide, long strong strokes". I find my pace improves with no extra power input, just more efficient.

Rowing a boat, on the other hand, is almost constant concentration on each stroke or it really slows down (or at worst flips you). Much more technical to get the oars in and out of the water without checking the boat. No one has ever had the "perfect stroke" but it is the gold at the end of the rainbow we all seek.
Mark Underwood. Rower first, cyclist too.

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OregonERG
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Re: How strict is your form?

Post by OregonERG » May 7th, 2021, 6:45 pm

Tobias Stoehr wrote:
May 6th, 2021, 3:59 pm
I try to row as fast as possible at all times...sometimes while trying to stay at low heart rate. There’s never room for inefficient movement though as I want to lay down power and not just move my body up and down the rail not applying power correctly.

I consciously didn’t write „form“ though as I am not looking for pure visual cues or „textbook“ form but to use the right muscles at the right time and efficiently and effectively transfer power to the flywheel.
When you say "fast as possible" do you mean pace/500m or SPM?

Sometimes I row fast (30 spm) but I am not rowing fast (~2:00/500m). Does that make sense?

Fast is one of those words that I use to mean two things and on this forum it can be confusing. Like in German, "leicht" can be easy or it can be light. Or "hot" can be spicy (scharf) or very warm (heiss). You know what I mean... Wittgenstein would be annoyed that I don't define my terms very well before I use them.
48 years, 6'0 & 170 lbs. | 2km - 6:59.2 / 5km - 18:13.7 / 30 min - 8085m / 10km - 37:12.5 / Hour Best - 15,823m

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hjs
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Re: How strict is your form?

Post by hjs » May 8th, 2021, 3:51 am

OregonERG wrote:
May 7th, 2021, 6:45 pm
Tobias Stoehr wrote:
May 6th, 2021, 3:59 pm
I try to row as fast as possible at all times...sometimes while trying to stay at low heart rate. There’s never room for inefficient movement though as I want to lay down power and not just move my body up and down the rail not applying power correctly.

I consciously didn’t write „form“ though as I am not looking for pure visual cues or „textbook“ form but to use the right muscles at the right time and efficiently and effectively transfer power to the flywheel.
When you say "fast as possible" do you mean pace/500m or SPM?

Sometimes I row fast (30 spm) but I am not rowing fast (~2:00/500m). Does that make sense?

Fast is one of those words that I use to mean two things and on this forum it can be confusing. Like in German, "leicht" can be easy or it can be light. Or "hot" can be spicy (scharf) or very warm (heiss). You know what I mean... Wittgenstein would be annoyed that I don't define my terms very well before I use them.
Fast 100% of the time means pace. And for Tobias that is while using 20 spm most of the time :wink:

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ampire
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Re: How strict is your form?

Post by ampire » May 8th, 2021, 12:44 pm

My perspective on form is that at my low height and light weight I have to maximize something, and form is one of the few things I can use to efficiently transfer energy into the flywheel with what I have. At R20, I typically have something like a ~1.3-1.36m drive length. Gaining height is impossible and gaining substantial muscle mass is unlikely as I will likely never be able to squat or deadlift ever again, at one time I had a 445lb deadlift and 405lb squat, but those days are long gone since I had the spinal cord tumor and surgery. If using proper form enables one to go faster with less effort, it is worth consistently training for and practicing, in addition to decreasing the likelihood of injury to enable me to train for the long term, ideally the rest of my life.
M35|5'8"/173CM|148lb/67KG|LWT|MHR 192|RHR 42|2020: 5K 18:52.9 (@1:53.2/500)|C2-D+Slides+EndureRow Seat+NSI Minicell Foam

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