Concept2 Forum

I’m a 50-yo 6’0” 167 lb. male truck driver. I’m on the road from mid Monday morning through late Friday night. This affords me time for long sessions on the erg Saturday and Sunday and a brief work out Monday morning, up to about 30 minutes. I’ve been doing two interval sessions each weekend and one steady state row alternating between 10,000m and an hour. During the work week, on the road, I try to get in one calisthenic interval session, one brief strength (pull-ups, push no-ups, squats, crunches) session, and one long walk. But I’m usually lucky if I get two of those in. Starting back on the erg after several years’ layoff, I managed a 2K in 7:58. After four weeks of training it dropped to 7:39. My goal is to get under 7. Two questions. First: is this unreasonable given my limited opportunities to row each week? And second what advice do you have about structuring my training—does my overall approach seem sound? Thanks in advance for any words of advice and/or encouragement.

Welcome to the forum.

Based on your age and weight and the difficulty of not putting on extra weight while on the road, I'd say you're doing a great job.

However, as you get older it's going to be harder and harder for your body to recover well enough between your multiple weekend rowing sessions to continue improving well over time. Plus, the increase in power to get from an 8 min 2k to a 7 min 2k, is really non-linear (202.5 W vs. 302.3 W see link below for C2 online Calculator) so it's going to be a tough challenge.

The only other things I can thing of that might help while you're on the road might be a folding bicycle (if you're in areas that provide for decent cycling) or maybe adding some kettlebell workouts to your calisthenic and strength sessions. It takes a bit of effort to learn how to do them properly, but things like Turkish Get Ups would be a great addition, and you'll have no trouble finding room in your truck's cab for a few KBs. (See links below for info on how to do a TGU) TGUs are a great combination of strength and cardio, and will help you do a bit of both with limited resources. (you'll need one KB and a clean carpet or a few yoga mats)

Good Luck

https://www.concept2.com/indoor-rowers/ ... calculator

https://www.menshealth.com/fitness/g195 ... kish-getup

https://youtu.be/sgd8n917Zv0

Thank you for the welcome and the advice, Ombrax. As it happens, I have a folding bicycle AND a kettlebell on my truck. And I’ve also totally geeked out with the C2 power and VO2 estimate calculators. So I do know what a steep hill I have to climb to achieve a sub-7 2k time. Honestly, my original goal was 7:12 (or 277.8w), which I’m much more confident of achieving. But then my enthusiasm got the better of my prudence...

I use the bike strictly for transportation and for pleasure. My relationship with bicycles is not consistent with their use for training or fitness. Call me a kook. The kettlebell, though, I could definitely put to better use than I do currently, as some extra weight for squats. I’ll definitely look into TGUs, thx!

I’ve thought about getting a second erg for the truck (since the wife got hooked on her daily 5K, commuting with it is not an option), but I’m not sure about the feasibility of shoehorning it in and out of the passenger door without removing that seat, which I suspect my employer, who owns the truck, would frown upon. If I could devise some sort of quick release for the legs that might open up some possibilities...

I’ll see how things progress over the course of the spring and then reassess. Thanks again.

Welcome JM,

As Ombrax has said, being 167lb when you spend your working life on the road is no small feat by itself. You're obviously doing something right (and you're tantalisingly close to LWT, but that's a discussion for another day).

As you've already identified, stacking your workouts into the weekend is not optimal, but needs must... Hopefully, you'll get some good advice from others more knowledgeable than I am, but I'd be tempted to make one interval session really brutal (whatever takes your fancy, 4x1k 5'r is generally regarded as the most unpopular of the popular 2k prep pieces, also 5x1500, etc).

The other session could be short and 'fun'. So focus on high rating but not power per stroke - skills training really - 6x250 or something like that. These are usually regarded as being too short for 2k prep, but not you're time constraints are quite tough. Watch your back on the starts, especially as you have to spend so much time sitting for work.

Good luck and keep us posted how you're progressing.

Thanks for weighing in, Max. No pun intended. I’ve learned by trial and error that, for me, weight is entirely diet dependent. And I’ve dialed in a diet that keeps my weight stable on the road, regardless of my fluctuating (and sometimes nearly-nonexistent) activity level.

I didn’t add to my original post that part of my (possibly unrealistic) goal to row sub-7 included doing it after weighing in under 165.

Thx for the advice on structuring the interval sessions. I’m definitely still honing my plan, so I’ll take your suggestions and try some shorter “non-orthodox” intervals. I do try to take my Monday morning session a little less seriously, and have some fun with them, as you suggest. It all may prove too little and too compressed, but I’ll see how things continue to evolve.

Looking at your PBs I’m interested to see that my 5k (19:52) and 30 minute (7,517) bests are very close to yours, while my 2k is a whopping 20+ seconds shorter. Maybe I’m underperforming at the shorter distance, or perhaps it’s more a case that you focus your training toward the 2k?

Respect for the effort you are putting.

Re 2k, for now keep doing what you, you just started so newby gains will make you faster.

For, on the road, you could start doing “air squats” building to high volume. We could say that doing a 2k is like doing 200 rep air squats. Experiment with those?

Jmmajers wrote: ↑

March 3rd, 2021, 12:38 pm

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Looking at your PBs I’m interested to see that my 5k (19:52) and 30 minute (7,517) bests are very close to yours, while my 2k is a whopping 20+ seconds shorter. Maybe I’m underperforming at the shorter distance, or perhaps it’s more a case that you focus your training toward the 2k?

Ha. My middle distances are my weakest - I guess it's a mental thing, that I can put up with outright pain for a short time, but moderate discomfort for 20-40mins... nup. Mild discomfort for a long time? Not so bad, so the hour and HM are a bit more respectable,

Bit of a sore point actually. I trained hard for a couple of months for a 5k in September, and blew up completely with only 500m to go. It kind of broke my will for months. The 2k I did on a whim, with hardly any specific training. And my 6k (heaps faster than my 5k) was when I was doing lots of sprint training focusing on improving my 1k.

Basically I fail when I train for something, but succeed when I don't. Take any of my advice with this in mind.

Thanks for the support and suggestions, hjs. I realize that my initial post likely led people to believe that I’m a newbie, though that isn’t at all the case. New to any thoughtful training, and back on the erg after a long hiatus, but I’ve been maintaining general fitness on a C2 since I bought one in 1987, during my senior year in high school. I was a stereotypical 98-pound weakling (but with ridiculous cockiness about my fitness). I couldn’t pull an 11 minute 2,500 (the standard competitive distance at that time for indoor racing) even after months of “training”. I couldn’t conceive of pulling slower than a 32 rating. I was a disaster. I was convinced there was something wrong with my PM.

Over the last 30+ years, after improving my form, slowing down my rating, and getting generally “stronger”, I’ve rowed for general fitness, always content to be able to maintain 2:00 pace for a half-hour. That was fit enough for general life, I figured. At one point in my mid-20’s I decided to break a 9 minute 2.5k, and that was my high water mark for erg performance to date.

Now, at 50, with a several year break from rowing (or doing anything meaningful to keep fit), I’ve decided to see what I can do toward achieving this lofty goal.

Max, sorry to have struck a nerve there. I guess the bad news for me is that there’s no evidence I’ve got some untapped 2k potential ready to bust out based on my middle distance performances. And before now, nearly the only training I ever did was 30-minute rows. So I guess I should show some relative strength there...

Re Newby, after a layoff we are not really one, but the gains are again newby like. See you fast 2k improvement.

Jmmajers wrote: ↑

March 3rd, 2021, 12:38 pm

...I’ve learned by trial and error that, for me, weight is entirely diet dependent. And I’ve dialed in a diet that keeps my weight stable on the road, regardless of my fluctuating (and sometimes nearly-nonexistent) activity level.

IMO, past adolescence to early thirty's, diet is THE most important element to get right to stay lean & healthy. Exercise is important for fitness, but is not so effective in losing weight, although I do recognize it has some benefits in disciplining one in limiting intake in losing weight, but more importantly, in helping to maintaining a healthy weight. However, if we can't control & limit our intake, no amount of exercise will prevent us from ending up overweight, fat & even....obese.

I divide newbie gains in 3:

1) Improving technique: the most significant for some. less relevant for someone restarting although issues may well creep in re 3 below
2) Tolerance of pain and identifying sustainable paces for various distances. This is often overlooked. Mentally we don't have the recent experience to draw on that proves that we can finish despite how it feels!
3) Rowing specific muscles strengthened. There are often significant imbalances in muscle strength / fitness to those who haven't rowed for some time. When I took a long time off I came back with (relatively) strong quads, but really struggled transferring that power to the handle due to very weak core and had DOMS in diaphragm for several weeks after modest rows. This meant that I could not rate up for any duration and the best I could manage for my initial 8 x 500 r 3' was 26SPM without compromising my stroke. Also had weaker hip flexors that hampered any longer rows.

In addition, personally when my fitness has dropped I will push HR higher than normal for the shortened sessions I manage. I think I get a partial dose of the effect of "sharpening" in taking the more quickly gained improvements that are lost most easily. This includes increased red blood cell count, utilising a higher stroke volume etc. The sharpening phase of training has been said to add around 2S/500m on a periodised program, I think larger gains than these are achieved when you restart due to the lower base from which we are improving.

Amount of gains is very individual, particularly so if the rower has remained fit by performing alternative exercise.

Re putting on weight, I find that I need an additional 1000cal/day when training seriously. most people become overweight due to daily excess calories way below this. I also find that the discipline of not rowing on a full stomach (and the training time itself) cuts a few hours of snacking from my day (and possibly a bit more as the sugar lows after bad snacks don't happen post row and so it is a bit longer before bad habits are reasserted). Rowing 6 days a week I think that this loss of time eating counters the tendency to eat more due to hunger from the rowing so that without additional effort my net excess / deficit is altered by the full amount of my rowing. I appreciate that most people do lower volumes when they (re)start rowing, but I do think that anyone doing >10k per day should find that the rowing makes a big difference. This is in addition to the benefits of a higher metabolism (muscle burns more calories than fat as well as building/ repairing muscle requiring many cals).

Again, mad respect for your levels JMM, sedentary job or not!

Health and fitness, finally a topic I've got a few decades of knowledge and exp!
When I was an admissions recruiter logging 15k/month (nowhere near your mileage) I found exercise bands can be very versatile and take up less space (not to mention weight) than some convertible dumbbells or a kettlebell (kbs are very sweet tho!). it takes some experimenting but if time is on your side and you don't mind 'dialing' in the technique an which bands to double up...etc. i used to get a great full body workout in 40-50 minutes using circuits (upper body push, legs, upper body pull, trunk/core...and repeat 3x) one quick example was Overhead pressing, stand on the bands or anchor just behind your butt, engage posture, and press 12-15 reps, then get into a loaded squat position 12-15 squats, then anchor in front for some double or single arm rows, then a twisting ab variation or pick your poison Bodyweight (BW) ab exercise. after 3 sets go with a chest press like banded pushups/anchored behind you pressing single/double at an incline angle or parallel, leg thing, bicep curl or shoulder raise, core thing... you can do these sets with 15-30 seconds rest between or just flow thru and you'll see muscle endurance increase big time, overall Full Body (FB) fitness improve, semi cardio conditioning, and you can build muscle and some compressive or upper Range of motion (ROM) strength at the top of the contractions greater than with DBs.

Other Pressing- overhead tricep press, tricep press downs, skull crusher setup, or even simulated dips, if using 2 equal bands you can even do chest flys from all angles
Other pulling- anchored lat pulldown or simulating DB pullovers, curl variations, row variations, shoulder/delt fly
Leg fun- resisted lunges, goblet (front style) squats, glute bridges, donkey kicks..heck calf raises if you wanted. * monster walks i find are a good round 1 exercise to wake up glutes and go harder on the squat round (My least favorite)
Core/abs- your imagination is the limit, wood chops, pillaf (pee-loff) presses, stability work twisting or stepping out...

Bands- Canway is what i've had 2 yrs of hard use including heavy friends using as pullup assist, they work great and were ~25 on sale.
https://www.amazon.com/Canway-Pull-Band ... op?ie=UTF8

Tubes-
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B006O0CLOS/re ... UTF8&psc=1
Bodylastics made some unique anchors that can sling around trees/fat poles, or you can stand on them and not damage the bands. but if you're in socks even these work just about as well and you get the added grip/pain tolerance benefit depending on how you're holding and how much tension you're pulling. WhataFit has good reviews and is 1/3 the cost ($25 on sale now), given how hard I've used mine and after 3yrs now they still work and i just wipe them down once a year with a rubber cleaner/conditioner (i think its a car foam cleaner $3bucks and will last a lifetime) I like the tube style for the ability to setup as a double cable system.

and lastly YES, diet is SOOO Crucial, I'm in arguably better shape now working out 4-5x/weekly than when i was 6-9x (some 2 a days and 1 rest day/wk), I'm not quite as fast but I'm not logging 30 miles a week, if i focus on one thing I see improvement and for now ROWING is that thing

I finally gave a full-on 2K effort last night and funnily enough it was 7:12.8. 50yrs old... you're going to be a beast again. Tons of 50-60yr. olds on here posting times I'll probably never hit. cheers friend.

iain wrote: ↑

March 5th, 2021, 8:31 am

Re putting on weight, I find that I need an additional 1000cal/day when training seriously. most people become overweight due to daily excess calories way below this. I also find that the discipline of not rowing on a full stomach (and the training time itself) cuts a few hours of snacking from my day (and possibly a bit more as the sugar lows after bad snacks don't happen post row and so it is a bit longer before bad habits are reasserted). Rowing 6 days a week I think that this loss of time eating counters the tendency to eat more due to hunger from the rowing so that without additional effort my net excess / deficit is altered by the full amount of my rowing. I appreciate that most people do lower volumes when they (re)start rowing, but I do think that anyone doing >10k per day should find that the rowing makes a big difference. This is in addition to the benefits of a higher metabolism (muscle burns more calories than fat as well as building/ repairing muscle requiring many cals).

Iain, major envy that you need those extra 1000 calories per day!!

mict450 wrote: ↑

March 5th, 2021, 12:54 pm

Iain, major envy that you need those extra 1000 calories per day!!

If you have the time available you can get there, just row slowly for longer and increase the distance 10% or so every week. The exponential growth will get you to high calorie usage too, just be patient and listen to your body. Some on here must be burning far more than I am (I do 6 sessions typically over 2 hours per session). Its not luck, its just hard work!

iain wrote: ↑

March 6th, 2021, 11:12 am

mict450 wrote: ↑

March 5th, 2021, 12:54 pm

Iain, major envy that you need those extra 1000 calories per day!!

If you have the time available you can get there, just row slowly for longer and increase the distance 10% or so every week. The exponential growth will get you to high calorie usage too, just be patient and listen to your body. Some on here must be burning far more than I am (I do 6 sessions typically over 2 hours per session). Its not luck, its just hard work!

Unfortunately for me, I'm already at 6 sessions weekly, 2 hours each, not counting BW exercises daily. Seems my metabolism is highly efficient at conserving calories.

Here's an article that may explain what I'm bumping into:

https://www.vox.com/2016/4/28/11518804/ ... n-calories

TL/DR: effect of more physical activity on the human body is not linear. The body sets a limit on how much energy it is willing to expend, regardless of how active we are.

Bottom line for me is, limiting intake is #1 for staying lean.