Concept2 Forum

Hello all,

I’m a relative beginner and just finished 100k for the Holiday Challenge (hooray!), rowing 5k daily with some rest days each week. I’m considering how to train next, and I’m wondering if I can take on the BPP. I would row 3-4 days per week and work on strength training on the other three days.

I have two questions. First, my best 5k time is 27:53 (a 2.47 pace). Looking at the rankings, that seems relatively slow even for other lightweight women in their 50s. Is there any problem with starting the BPP or should I be training in some other way before endeavoring to increase my endurance? Second, the BPP increases distance fairly rapidly (or so it seems to someone who has maxed at 5500m). If I do find that the plan is too much for me on a given week, does it make sense to just repeat the last week’s plan before progressing to the next week?

Many thanks for your thoughts!
Theresa

TessBrooklyn wrote: ↑

December 25th, 2020, 9:16 pm

Hello all,

I’m a relative beginner and just finished 100k for the Holiday Challenge (hooray!), rowing 5k daily with some rest days each week. I’m considering how to train next, and I’m wondering if I can take on the BPP. I would row 3-4 days per week and work on strength training on the other three days.

I have two questions. First, my best 5k time is 27:53 (a 2.47 pace). Looking at the rankings, that seems relatively slow even for other lightweight women in their 50s. Is there any problem with starting the BPP or should I be training in some other way before endeavoring to increase my endurance? Second, the BPP increases distance fairly rapidly (or so it seems to someone who has maxed at 5500m). If I do find that the plan is too much for me on a given week, does it make sense to just repeat the last week’s plan before progressing to the next week?

Many thanks for your thoughts!
Theresa

Theresa, congrats on completing the 100km holiday challenge! Quite a bit of dedication there for a newbie.

If you can comfortably row 5km, then you are certainly ready to start the BPP. The plan does advance quickly with the 500m addition to the long rows each week. Keep in mind that you have plenty of rest days built into the BPP and should use them. There are the three required rows each week with two optional rows if you are so inclined. If you stall, there is no harm in repeating a week or even going back one week.

My best advice for you would be to avoid comparing your times with those listed on the Concept2 web site at this point. Keep in mind that most there are experienced rowers who likely have years of rowing training. Your 2:47 pace is quite respectable for a LW newbie. I'm sure your times will improve dramatically as you progress through the BPP.

"Comparison is the thief of joy" - Theodore Roosevelt

Welcome to the forum Theresa.

I don't have much more to add to what Mitchel has said, but always bear in mind that your pace will increase with more practice as the C2 ergs are, generally speaking, very meritocratic: if you keep working at it, you'll improve. Progress is never linear for very long, so don't get disheartened if it peaks and troughs, but just remember that even on the bad days, your body is adapting.

Sometimes it's the small details that matter, so can I ask what drag factor and stroke rate you are using?

Thank you both for the good news and encouragement. Mitchel, I'll heed your advice! Dangerscouse, I just looked over the last several entries in the log. My stroke rate is 19-21 and my drag factor is 93-95. What does that tell you?

TessBrooklyn wrote: ↑

December 26th, 2020, 8:27 am

Thank you both for the good news and encouragement. Mitchel, I'll heed your advice! Dangerscouse, I just looked over the last several entries in the log. My stroke rate is 19-21 and my drag factor is 93-95. What does that tell you?

Stroke rate and drag are good for steady UT2 sessions, but you will get further if you increase your stroke rate. Bear in mind that the ranked 5k times will be, almost always, people's best effort, so it will be done at higher stroke rates. For a 5k it's ideal to use circa r28, if you are able to, but it might take a bit of getting used to and you might be more efficient at r24-26. There is no 'one size fits all' method. (a small r before the number is shorthand for stroke rate)

As an example if I did a 5k at r19-21, I'd expect to be circa two seconds slower in my average pace, but as a newbie this would have been more like four or five seconds, so over 5k that could be 50 seconds slower just due to the stroke rate.

This is obviously all theoretical, but it's probably, at the very least, fairly comparable to your results. As you get fitter, more confident and your breathing sequence adjusts you will be able to row at higher stroke rates, so don't worry if that doesn't happen just yet. It can take months to happen to any notable extent.

Very useful explanation -- thank you! What's a UT2 session? I've gathered that it's slower and longer, but I'm not sure what UT2 means or what makes a long session UT2. The BPP will be the longest distances I've ever rowed, but I assume those aren't considered UT2. Is that right? Is there a stroke rate I should aim for on the BPP? Also, should it change depending on whether I am doing a workout in his group 1, 2, or 3 (endurance, speed endurance, or speed training)?

TessBrooklyn wrote: ↑

December 26th, 2020, 10:33 am

Very useful explanation -- thank you! What's a UT2 session? I've gathered that it's slower and longer, but I'm not sure what UT2 means or what makes a long session UT2. The BPP will be the longest distances I've ever rowed, but I assume those aren't considered UT2. Is that right? Is there a stroke rate I should aim for on the BPP? Also, should it change depending on whether I am doing a workout in his group 1, 2, or 3 (endurance, speed endurance, or speed training)?

Sorry, UT2 is a Utilisation Training session. UT2 is generally 65-75% of max HR (MHR), but sometimes it is stated as being 60-70%. UT2 is what you use for any distance, and a good benchmark for UT2 if you don't have a HR monitor, is if you can sing, or talk, a few sentences. It should feel like a 6/10 effort, and it will be working relatively hard, but not too much. Endurance training should always be in this zone, as any harder will be detrimental. "Work hard, or hardly work" is a great thing to remember. R19-21 is a good stroke rate for endurance (UT2).

Speed endurance will be when you're doing circa 80-85%, maybe up to 90%, or 8/10 effort. A few words can be spoken, but that's all. That will be referred to as UT1. If possible circa r24-26 will be ideal.

Speed training will be circa 90-95%, and talking will not be an option. This will be ideally at circa r28 but it might not be possible, so it might be a target to work towards.

You should post up a video of yourself rowing so forum members can critique your form. Improving form will result in a lower split (faster pace/500M) with the same or less effort.

ampire wrote: ↑

December 26th, 2020, 12:14 pm

You should post up a video of yourself rowing so forum members can critique your form. Improving form will result in a lower split (faster pace/500M) with the same or less effort.

She did.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=192561&p=511871#p511871

She's got good form and solid technique!

TessBrooklyn wrote: ↑

December 26th, 2020, 10:33 am

Very useful explanation -- thank you! What's a UT2 session? I've gathered that it's slower and longer, but I'm not sure what UT2 means or what makes a long session UT2. The BPP will be the longest distances I've ever rowed, but I assume those aren't considered UT2. Is that right? Is there a stroke rate I should aim for on the BPP? Also, should it change depending on whether I am doing a workout in his group 1, 2, or 3 (endurance, speed endurance, or speed training)?

I've done the BPP twice in the past 3 years. I think it's a solid program that can keep you motivated and accountable while steadily increasing your endurance and speed.

However, one of the shortcomings is that Pete never discusses stroke rate. He does mention that there are three different types of sessions.

Group 1 (Endurance) - These are the increasingly longer steady state rows each week starting at 5k. As Stu mentioned, these should be rowed easily at a UT2 pace with a rate between 18-22spm.

Group 2 (Speed Endurance) - These are longer intervals 4 x 2000m or 5 x 1500mm. These are designed to get you to your anaerobic threshold for a period of time and then generally have a longer rest period between intervals to get your heart rate back down.

Group 3 (Speed Training) - These are shorter intervals 8 x 500m, etc... but with shorter rest periods. Designed to help you work on your speed. Your stroke rate will be faster on these as you improve (26spm and faster).

But the real fun of the BPP is that you use your own past performance as you guide and target as you progress. No need to check the leader board. Just go back as Pete instructs and use your previous efforts as your guide and watch how you improve!

This explains so much! Thank you both for the detailed descriptions of the three training types.

Ok, one more question. It happens that I received a heart rate monitor for Christmas (thank you Husband!), and used it for the first time this morning. I rowed 5k at a 2:55 pace at r19 with an average heart rate of 145. If my maximum is 165 (220-age 55, yes?), I was rowing 88% of my max. Using Dangerscouse's handy description, that effort is what I should be doing for speed endurance workouts with a faster stroke rate, correct? Because the plan builds on the previous workouts, I don't want to start at a pace I can't keep up later. For my first endurance workout, should I make sure the stroke rate 19-21 but cut back to a heart rate of 60-75% (which for me is 99-124 bpm)? Again, thanks for your time.

Ok, here's the bad news...your max HR is best proven by doing a horrible session eg 2k or more, and doing it at max effort, so you can't physically maintain the pace, and then registering your ending HR. Even this isn't perfect, but it's as good as it gets without a lab test.

It's not nice, but it's necessary as 220-age is a very flawed approach. It might turn out to be the same max result, but it's very unreliable: I know of two mid 30s year old rower with max of 202.

The only thing I would say is that HR can be quite fickle. Dehydration, tiredness, stress, under lying fatigue amongst other things can effect it, so don't read too much into it. A higher than normal resting HR is usually a bad sign, so that can be a useful warning for you to ease off the intensity.

TessBrooklyn wrote: ↑

December 26th, 2020, 2:03 pm

This explains so much! Thank you both for the detailed descriptions of the three training types.

Ok, one more question. It happens that I received a heart rate monitor for Christmas (thank you Husband!), and used it for the first time this morning. I rowed 5k at a 2:55 pace at r19 with an average heart rate of 145. If my maximum is 165 (220-age 55, yes?), I was rowing 88% of my max. Using Dangerscouse's handy description, that effort is what I should be doing for speed endurance workouts with a faster stroke rate, correct? Because the plan builds on the previous workouts, I don't want to start at a pace I can't keep up later. For my first endurance workout, should I make sure the stroke rate 19-21 but cut back to a heart rate of 60-75% (which for me is 99-124 bpm)? Again, thanks for your time.

IMO, don't row any slower than what you are doing, you have to keep pushing harder to get faster. Heart rate will come down as you get fitter.

Go for it Tess! I’m on the last day of week 9. I was very fit until becoming seriously ill nearly 2 years ago. I had so much muscle wastage and my walking still isn’t 100%, but since being on the plan my muscle is coming back and walking improving. I use a hrm and use erg data app connected to my PM5 to upload my results to the concept2 log book. You’ll find your own level as you progress. I had to slow down on the longer pieces by 3-4 seconds once the metres began to climb. My resting heart rate is now much lower (about 44, from 60ish) as is my working heart rate. I’ve done 5 days per week since starting. I find it keeps me motivated.

As others have mentioned, technique is key and remaining relaxed. I breathe through my nose, takes a lot of practice, but I find that makes a big difference to me. Buy a good fan! ;o)

Another great side benefit is my body fat has fallen off. I’d accumulated quite a bit through being on steroids and the inactivity. My doctor said he’s never seen anyone so lean on steroids!

Just to add, I’m not a complete noob to rowing. I’ve done it on and off for many years alongside body pump, spinning, body balance and other high intensity stuff. But, about 14 months ago I couldn’t even erg for 3 minutes. So I’m sure you’ll be surprised by how quickly you’ll progress.

TessBrooklyn wrote: ↑

December 26th, 2020, 2:03 pm

This explains so much! Thank you both for the detailed descriptions of the three training types.

Ok, one more question. It happens that I received a heart rate monitor for Christmas (thank you Husband!), and used it for the first time this morning. I rowed 5k at a 2:55 pace at r19 with an average heart rate of 145. If my maximum is 165 (220-age 55, yes?), I was rowing 88% of my max. Using Dangerscouse's handy description, that effort is what I should be doing for speed endurance workouts with a faster stroke rate, correct? Because the plan builds on the previous workouts, I don't want to start at a pace I can't keep up later. For my first endurance workout, should I make sure the stroke rate 19-21 but cut back to a heart rate of 60-75% (which for me is 99-124 bpm)? Again, thanks for your time.

Re heartrate, you need to know your reserve to say anything meaningfull. Hf is an individual thing and can NOT be calculated.
Reserve is restrate, sitting still fully rested, and max hf, is going at max intensity rested.

The gap between that max and rest rate is your personal heartrate window. So find those out the next month.
Next couple of days wear it in rest and see what your rest rate is. Could be between say 40 and 70

Second your max, look during hard efforts at what the highest number is you see. Use that as your current max. Every time you see a higher number use that. Over time you will find your real max.

Say your numbers are 60 and 170 beats. That would give a 110 reserve.

70% of that would be 77 (0,7x 110)

Your 70% cap would be 60 plus 77 makes 137.
88% would be 0,88 x 110 plus 60. Makes 156. You will find 88% pretty easy to reach. Its hard work, but not so that you drop of the erg.

My general advice would be, just start, learn about your personal hf behavior. Use the plan how it suits you, nothing is needed, if you want make alternations, do so.
Post your sessions in the training thread, if you have questions ask them there. Use your common sence, and you won’t go wrong much. Enjoy