Concept2 Forum

I just had a demoralizing workout and I'm not sure how to proceed. I don't know if I should continue with the Holiday Challenge or do something else because it's too hard for me. I'm a 55 yo woman, 5'3 120lbs. I was regularly rowing for 25-30 minutes, 3x per week before starting this challenge, and I thought it would be good for me to be introduced to different intervals and stroke rates. The first four workouts were fine but this morning feels like a huge jump. The workout is:
5 minutes: 18/20/22/20/18
10 minutes:20/20/22/22/24/24/22/22/20/20
15 minutes:22/22/22/24/24/24/26/26/26/24/24/24/22/22/22
10 minutes:24/24/26/26/28/28/26/26/24/24
5 minutes: 26/28/30/28/26

I found it hard to get to the 26 stroke rate in the 15 minute interval. I think I got as high as 25. And then the 28 minute stroke rate in the 4th interval felt impossible. By the time I got to the 5th interval I was just beat and I kept it around 24. I'm sure the whole thing was complicated by the fact that I made a mistake setting up the monitor and my 3rd interval said 10 minutes instead of 15, so I had to reset it after I finished that interval.

My question is what to do now. Am I just not strong enough yet for this challenge? Should I be doing something else first? I liked the idea of having different workouts, but the fact that I couldn't row that fast makes me wonder if I'm doing something wrong. For what it's worth, my damper is set at 3 and my drag rate at is 96.

Thanks,
Theresa

Theresa, a few things jump out at me.

The first is that you are a beginner. Please do not frustrate yourself with a challenge or a workout that is beyond your current ability. Consider the amount of rowing you would have to do to complete the 100k holiday challenge. Rowing just 3 days a week would require over 8000m per session. Is this a distance you usually cover in your workouts?

What is your typical workout? Do you row a specific time or distance? What stroke rate is typical for you?

If this was your first effort at intervals and stroke rate pyramids, they can be quite humbling. I suspect you chose a workout just beyond your current abilities. Perhaps a bit more of a conservative stroke rate ladder would work better for you.

I am also trying to get more comfortable at higher stroke rates. The majority of my work is long rows at 20-22 spm. Last night I did an excellent workout with Eric Murray on Youtube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2_uha1vGAc

This was 5 x 6 minute pieces with 90 seconds rest and a stroke rate ladder that worked great for me.
20/22
22/24
20/22/24
22/24/26
24/26/28

Perhaps consider a workout like this for your next attempt at intervals.

Theresa, the session you did looks pretty complicated, maybe for a beginner a bit to much. You could alter a session to your own needs, lower the ratings to your needs.

Re rating, not being to rate up is not strenght, but endurance.

And third, the most important, nothing wrong is “failing” a session. It was new, your tried and found out is was difficult. But in end you made the best of it. Really nothing went that wrong.

You learned from it.

TessBrooklyn wrote: ↑

November 30th, 2020, 9:04 am

I just had a demoralizing workout and I'm not sure how to proceed. I don't know if I should continue with the Holiday Challenge or do something else because it's too hard for me. I'm a 55 yo woman, 5'3 120lbs. I was regularly rowing for 25-30 minutes, 3x per week before starting this challenge, and I thought it would be good for me to be introduced to different intervals and stroke rates. The first four workouts were fine but this morning feels like a huge jump. The workout is:
5 minutes: 18/20/22/20/18
10 minutes:20/20/22/22/24/24/22/22/20/20
15 minutes:22/22/22/24/24/24/26/26/26/24/24/24/22/22/22
10 minutes:24/24/26/26/28/28/26/26/24/24
5 minutes: 26/28/30/28/26

I found it hard to get to the 26 stroke rate in the 15 minute interval. I think I got as high as 25. And then the 28 minute stroke rate in the 4th interval felt impossible. By the time I got to the 5th interval I was just beat and I kept it around 24. I'm sure the whole thing was complicated by the fact that I made a mistake setting up the monitor and my 3rd interval said 10 minutes instead of 15, so I had to reset it after I finished that interval.

My question is what to do now. Am I just not strong enough yet for this challenge? Should I be doing something else first? I liked the idea of having different workouts, but the fact that I couldn't row that fast makes me wonder if I'm doing something wrong. For what it's worth, my damper is set at 3 and my drag rate at is 96.

Thanks,
Theresa

Errr.....not sure I would have understood that either....or wanted to do it. One reason I am not following the daily sessions for the Holiday challenge is that they don't fit with my own plans or targets. I'll complete whatever metres I complete doing my own thing. I would agree with other that you should row what you like and enjoy otherwise what's the point burying yourself in over complicated targets.

If you want an alternative plan to follow have a look at the Beginners Pete Plan......I followed this and recommend it whole heartedly.
https://thepeteplan.wordpress.com/beginner-training/

Good luck with your rowing Theresa.

TessBrooklyn wrote: ↑

November 30th, 2020, 9:04 am

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My question is what to do now. Am I just not strong enough yet for this challenge? Should I be doing something else first? I liked the idea of having different workouts, but the fact that I couldn't row that fast makes me wonder if I'm doing something wrong. For what it's worth, my damper is set at 3 and my drag rate at is 96.

Thanks,
Theresa

The Holiday Challenge calendar they publish is a lot of rowing and some of the workouts, as yesterdays was, are quite complicated to set up!
If you like having different workouts set each day, then maybe the Workout of the Day that C2 publish daily might be a good alternative?
https://www.concept2.co.uk/indoor-rowers/training/wod

It offers short/medium/long for each day so can you pick what you feel is good for you and also has the button presses in order you can program them, which is useful.

Good luck with the rest of the challenge. It was the Holiday Challenge that got me into erging regularly

My question is what to do now.

What we all do: develop your own program and use it and adapt it, according to results. What you've seen is a result. If you can't climb a mountain all at once, break it up into a set of smaller hills.

Getting fit is a cell-growth function, and it can't happen any faster than your hair or nails can grow. Any excess stress will lead to refusal. You probably can avoid refusal by doing around 1 to 2% more Work per week.

Work is average Watts x Time.

mitchel674 wrote: ↑

November 30th, 2020, 9:37 am

Theresa, a few things jump out at me.

The first is that you are a beginner. Please do not frustrate yourself with a challenge or a workout that is beyond your current ability. Consider the amount of rowing you would have to do to complete the 100k holiday challenge. Rowing just 3 days a week would require over 8000m per session. Is this a distance you usually cover in your workouts?

What is your typical workout? Do you row a specific time or distance? What stroke rate is typical for you?

If this was your first effort at intervals and stroke rate pyramids, they can be quite humbling. I suspect you chose a workout just beyond your current abilities. Perhaps a bit more of a conservative stroke rate ladder would work better for you.

I am also trying to get more comfortable at higher stroke rates. The majority of my work is long rows at 20-22 spm. Last night I did an excellent workout with Eric Murray on Youtube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2_uha1vGAc

This was 5 x 6 minute pieces with 90 seconds rest and a stroke rate ladder that worked great for me.
20/22
22/24
20/22/24
22/24/26
24/26/28

Perhaps consider a workout like this for your next attempt at intervals.

Great reply Mitch, seconded.

That OP Workout comes straight from the Wolverine L4 tables, courtesy of Mike Caviston no doubt, and was for Varsity level oarswomen with 2k racing (afloat too) under their belt - necessarily, the paces are based on 2k results. To me it looks like a week's work. I'd start at 10 minutes total rates 18-20-18-20-18; with a 22 in the middle if feeling tough; not forgetting the warm-up first.

Thanks, everyone for your thoughts and your kindness. Mitchel674, I appreciate the suggestion of a more conservative stroke rate ladder. To answer your question, my typical workout before the challenge is ~30 minutes at 20-22 spm. I didn’t look much at the distance or the pace before — I was just trying for 30 minutes. I learned how to log workouts just before the challenge and I did 4770m at a 3:09 pace earlier in the week. On Thursday I did 5000m in 29:44 at a 2.58 pace, to give you an idea of where I’m starting. I knew I was diving into deep waters with the Challenge, but my thinking was that 100,000m divided by 29 days is 3448m per day and I regularly row more than that per workout. I figured I’d be doing more frequent workouts and that would be the challenge!

Hjs and jamesng, I appreciate the perspective. Yes, it wasn’t a fail, just a result, and I did make the best of it. And it makes sense that endurance, not strength, is the issue. Hmm, jamesng, a cell-growth function. I never heard that before. Interesting. Obviously, I’m jumping much faster than 1-2% per week. I’m not sure what to make of that, but it’s very thought provoking. Maybe I am going too fast. I guess the trick is to balance the risk of refusal with the excitement doing something new.

Alex, it’s good to hear that you just do your own thing, I could just try to do daily workouts of 3500m. That would be lots more than my usual, and if I could do it would get me to 100K — and the donation! And thanks all for the alternatives you’ve suggested — the Eric Murray ladder, Pete’s Plan for Beginners, and the WOD.

Cheers all,
Theresa

TessBrooklyn wrote: ↑

November 30th, 2020, 2:08 pm

Thanks, everyone for your thoughts and your kindness. Mitchel674, I appreciate the suggestion of a more conservative stroke rate ladder. To answer your question, my typical workout before the challenge is ~30 minutes at 20-22 spm. I didn’t look much at the distance or the pace before — I was just trying for 30 minutes. I learned how to log workouts just before the challenge and I did 4770m at a 3:09 pace earlier in the week. On Thursday I did 5000m in 29:44 at a 2.58 pace, to give you an idea of where I’m starting. I knew I was diving into deep waters with the Challenge, but my thinking was that 100,000m divided by 29 days is 3448m per day and I regularly row more than that per workout. I figured I’d be doing more frequent workouts and that would be the challenge!

Yes, but you typically row 5000m three days a week. Pretty good start for a beginner and there is quite a few rest days thrown in. That's a big jump in volume for a beginner. I just do not want you to get injured or frustrated by your efforts to complete the 100km holiday challenge.

One thing we know is that your form looks pretty good. Perhaps you could consider your usual 5km at your current pace 5 days/week. You could complete the challenge and build some base aerobic fitness over the month. After that, you could consider starting with the beginner Pete plan.

Jettison the rate ladders. Do your 40-45’ as 2x20’ or 3x15’. Use your bread ‘n butter rate. Fatigue will drive it higher without Caviston’s prescribed sequences. Meter goal challenges usually demand more active days and less full rest days than we’re accustomed to. We compensate by doing the larger proportion of our meters as low to moderate intensity continuous efforts. Crossing a continent on foot calls for the energy cost effectiveness of dogtrotting. Meter munching is also facilitated by sacrificing speed to produce protracted effort.

On closer examination, those rate changes on the minute inside a symmetrical time pyramid are not Caviston. The Wolverine l4 workouts are typically 6’ or 10’ continuous blocks with rate changes at regular 2’ increments or changes at 3’ /1’, 4’ /2’, and 5’/3’ for 6’ sequences and 6’/3’/1’, 7’/4’/1’, and 9’/7’/4’ for 10’ sequences. Simply making the rate changes correctly against the PM’s countdown clock takes energy! But the OP’s, from whatever source, are enuf to kill a 20 mule team.

These rate changes have nothing to do with the WP as far I can see. The wp level 4 are endurance workouts at prescribed rates and paces and they are primarily intended for continuous pieces rather than intervals.

I did this workout. Ït was certainly tough, and if I'd tried to keep the same work per stroke as per my wp band at 1.49, it would have been as close to impossible as makes no difference.

Theresa, I think that not being comfortable yet at 30SPM isn't a bad thing. Many newbies thrash up and down the slide like Duracell bunnies, but you are doing the right thing by focusing on stroke and technique.

Word of caution about today's workout if anyone is considering it. It's a stroke ladder, 1 on/1 off up to 30/30. Looks easy but that's 930 strokes, which could easily be 8-9k. The 200km challenge version could possibly see a surprise 18k.

max_ratcliffe wrote: ↑

November 30th, 2020, 7:27 pm

These rate changes have nothing to do with the WP as far I can see. The wp level 4 are endurance workouts at prescribed rates and paces and they are primarily intended for continuous pieces rather than intervals.

I did this workout. Ït was certainly tough, and if I'd tried to keep the same work per stroke as per my wp band at 1.49, it would have been as close to impossible as makes no difference.

Theresa, I think that not being comfortable yet at 30SPM isn't a bad thing. Many newbies thrash up and down the slide like Duracell bunnies, but you are doing the right thing by focusing on stroke and technique.

Word of caution about today's workout if anyone is considering it. It's a stroke ladder, 1 on/1 off up to 30/30. Looks easy but that's 930 strokes, which could easily be 8-9k. The 200km challenge version could possibly see a surprise 18k.

The L4 pace tables indexed to current 2k pace are mentioned in passing by JamesG. Apparently there are no pace recommendations in this “Holiday Challenge calendar”? The 1 Dec. workout also doesn’t show specifics of rate values at change. Passing strange!

Thank you, mitchel674. I'll do what you suggested so that I have the rest days. I really appreciate the reality check about injuries because I've been there before.

Kind regards,
Theresa